What String Combo to use for 100+ hours a month of play/practice - Kevlar???

[pvaudio]

Originally Posted by jason586

Fairly heavy spin. I do not know anyone who goes breaks firm poly in 10 hours? I usually end up snapping a main towards the top of the racquet though, almost never a cross on full poly? I went through a full bed of PLII in about 8 days which was probably about 30ish hours though, and as I mentioned my poly main/multi cross string jobs only lasted 3-4 days. I know several 3.5 players guys not restringing for over a year with full poly and no breakage, and they all play with topspin (although more moderate topspin that I play with).
I have a very basic recording function on my digital camera and will try to get some video if that would help.

10-15hrs until poly breakage is not unusual. Mine usually occurs due to my serve and FH. This is why I don't use full poly and prefer to hybrid. If i can pop the cross in 8 hours, why waste my fave poly string if it'll break only after it's dead? With full bed anything, I only break mains. With hybrids, I only break crosses.

Keep in mind that I'm not knocking your ability. What I am saying is that even poly will break if you're hitting a big enough ball. If after 80-100hrs you have not broken it, you aren't getting the benefits of poly. I promise you that you'll see the same amount of spin with full natural gut AND it will play better for longer.

[jason586]

I am sorry if my situation is confusing, but it is what it is. I am the only person I know who is this excessive in their hours of tennis play, but I do play and practice 100+ hours a month and love it. I have always done what others say can not be done from graduating college in 2 years (statistics) to becoming a scratch golfer to buying a movie theater at age 25 to being completely debt free in my late 20's to retiring at age 30. Now my obsession is tennis, and I'm having a great time trying to get to 5.0 as I've read that it is an extremely small percentage chance to get there if you start tennis in your 30's. I'm not on here asking questions with exaggerated numbers/claims that do not relate to me to waste my time. What would be the point as the answers received would be inaccurate and skewed by the wrong initial information given.

1) I have been playing tennis for about 15 months, and I have moved up to playing solid 4.0 tennis with a hard forehand with fairly heavy topspin and mediocre two-handed backhand that mostly just keeps me in a point. 100 mph 1st serve, decent 2nd kick serve that I keep deep in the box. I only come to the net on short balls.
2) Poly main with multi cross lasts me about 12ish hours until the cross breaks.
3) I play 100+ hours a month and full poly bed usually lasts me about 3 weeks until a main breaks. Of course....the playing characteristics suffer after the first 10ish hours of play, but so far I have just dealt with playing dead poly.

The questions is: What to do about getting longer quality playing characteristics with the excessive amount of time I spend on the courts without having to spend a lot and having to restring every few days???
*The only answer has been to buy a stringer and string once a week. Is that the only answer to the excessive amount of time I spend on the courts?

Also, I talked to the pro who strings a lot of the racquets around here and has been stringing for 20+ years. He said almost none of the 3.5, 4.0 and rarely the 4.5 guys are breaking their full poly beds in 10 hours especially on a 95" frame regardless of being 16x19. He said there is a 5.5 college player who breaks full poly BHB7 every other day though.

Everyone can question it all they want, but it is what it is. Full poly lasts me about 3 weeks, and I play over 100 hours a month.
I have a pair of the 100" and a pair of the 95" Vantages. One of each has broken strings, and my Ashaway Kevlar string trade came in today. So, I am going to try it in each stick to see for myself how it plays. Maybe it will be the joy of my life like travelerjam. If not, my next step will likely be the $69 Iontec reels from Mamba. I'll probably order a couple of the single sets to try first though.

Originally Posted by maxpotapov

It's all just... confusing

[jason586]

Originally Posted by maxpotapov

No it's not typical. You don't see questions like that every day. 100 hours per month 4.0 training with 80 hours on full poly... I remember another thread when someone was going through kevlar/poly setup in just few hours, and that was puzzling too

Again, you do not read thoroughly and assume too much. I said I play 100+ hours a month and play 4.0 tennis - not 100 hours per month of 4.0 training. In the beginning I had plenty of people to play competitively with because I was new to the game. But with my hours on the court, I have quickly become better than many in my area, so I have fewer people to challenge me. So, I work on what I can with whomever I am playing or practicing with which unfortunately is slowing my progress a bit as most seem to be 3.5 where I'm at.

[jason586]

Thank you - that is all I'm asking. Just trying to give enough info so that there is a good point of reference - not to argue the point of reference.

Originally Posted by nyc

OP is asking for String recommendation and not even ten posts later thread deteriorates into criticizing OP's technique/ability/mental state.

Just sayin'.

[jason586]

I've read extensively many natural gut threads on TT. The Mamba stuff seems to get pretty mixed reviews although the customer service seems great, and I'm not wanting to spend $80-100/month on string (2 sets or 80' x $35-40 quality gut + 2 sets or 80' of poly for crosses) which is what I have the costs estimated if I go through it every week over about 25-30 hours of tennis.
If I break poly main/multi cross in 12ish hours, I estimate that I would break gut main/poly cross in about 25-30ish hours???

Originally Posted by pvaudio

I promise you that you'll see the same amount of spin with full natural gut AND it will play better for longer.

[pvaudio]

My friend, you do not need to be defensive. I've already said numerous times now to try natural gut. Yes, it is expensive, and if you don't have a stringer, it's the best performance value. Kevlar may last and last, but if you're not breaking poly, then I see no reason to switch from it to something more uncomfortable.

As far as breakage goes, I have 3 frames waiting to be done: a kblade 98 with popped RPM blast, another blade 98 (this past generation) with popped full ALU and a microgel radical with popped SPPP. These are all players I hit with on our club team. Heck, I used to string for one of my professors, and he and his daughter would pop full Big Ace every few weeks. Breaking poly is not that unusual. The only point that I'm trying to make is that if you're not breaking it after 100 hours, then it's not the best string type for you. The added spin is gone after that first 8-10 hours once the string is dead.

edit: my defensive comment does not apply, I started writing this post this afternoon and just now finished it haha

[jason586]

I am not defensive toward you but another poster. As I mentioned in each post I made, I completely understand that I lose the benefits of poly after about 10 hours and I fully feel it when playing but have just dealt with it until now. Next I tried poly in the mains as a hybrid, and I am not OK with how short a time the crosses last. I strung all 4 of my racquets to last me a month, and now I have 3 broken crosses in only 12 days.
I am ready to move past playing dead poly, but poly/multi was not the answer due to durability. I also didn't care for how it played versus full poly with reduced spin as the multi seems to not let the mains move well. I think I even like dead poly better than poly/multi except the dead poly does wear on my wrist and shoulder (no elbow issues though).

As I mentioned, I do have a stringer that I can use at no cost about once a month, and I know how to string my own racquets and have done so about 15 times.
The reason I was thinking to move to Kevlar was that I have read over various threads that the good spin playing characteristics last much longer with Kevlar than with poly. So maybe Kevlar would play well for maybe 25 hours versus only 10 hours for poly - even as the tension drops.
My question probably never comes up because anyone who plays close to as much as me probably is younger and sponsored or gets free strings/stringing from their college, etc. I'm just trying to get the best playing characteristics for the least costs, since I do not get my strings for free and do play excessively. Just because I have money does not mean I am not careful with what I spend. In fact, I have money in large part because I am careful with what I spend.

I do appreciate your suggestions and attempts to help - thank you.

Originally Posted by pvaudio

My friend, you do not need to be defensive. I've already said numerous times now to try natural gut. Yes, it is expensive, and if you don't have a stringer, it's the best performance value. Kevlar may last and last, but if you're not breaking poly, then I see no reason to switch from it to something more uncomfortable.

As far as breakage goes, I have 3 frames waiting to be done: a kblade 98 with popped RPM blast, another blade 98 (this past generation) with popped full ALU and a microgel radical with popped SPPP. These are all players I hit with on our club team. Heck, I used to string for one of my professors, and he and his daughter would pop full Big Ace every few weeks. Breaking poly is not that unusual. The only point that I'm trying to make is that if you're not breaking it after 100 hours, then it's not the best string type for you. The added spin is gone after that first 8-10 hours once the string is dead.

[pheonix6579]

1.25mm poly? if durability is the only factor, why not go with a 1.30 poly or maybe a 15 gauge poly (whoa my arm just got a paint after typing that).

Also, just a thought, if you got a stringer that you could use anytime you could keep a fresh set in your frames. If you are working on really improving your game your not getting the most out of your training if your playing with overly dead poly, your just inching your way toward injury (maybe not now but over time). Kinda like it's a bad idea to practice serve with really dead balls.

[pvaudio]

Okay, then let's just try this common sense approach: what are you wanting? Are you simply wanting durability and nothing more? If so, then kevlar is for you. I like to call these pick 2 of 3 situations. We have playability, durability and cost. Multifilaments are very playable and typically inexpensive, but don't last. NG is very playable with better durability than anything but poly and kevlar, but is costly. Kevlar is durable and cheap but with the least playability. Poly is a different kind of the playability and cost analogy, as its durability is defined in terms of hours until death. Kevlar, as I said previously, has the worst tension loss of any string out there. Natural gut has the best. Poly has pretty decent tension stability but then eventually dies. Once it's dead, however, it doesn't get worse. It simply stays bad. Of those three options, which is the one that you are most willing to live with?

In my personal view, if you're playing this often, you're likely trying to improve. If this is the case, kevlar is NOT the string for you as it provides extremely little feedback and encourages using far more muscle than is necessary with any other string type. All of the kevlar converts I string for initially think that all other strings are simply cannons when in fact it's that Kevlar doesn't even have a fuse. Most importantly, which is what phoenix alluded to, is that if you're working on getting better, you NEED consistent strings. Restringing regularly as you're steadily improving is unfortunately part of the sport once you get to a certain level. It's akin to using the same set of balls for 100hrs while honing your strokes.

[maxpotapov]

Originally Posted by jason586

Again, you do not read thoroughly and assume too much. I said I play 100+ hours a month and play 4.0 tennis - not 100 hours per month of 4.0 training. In the beginning I had plenty of people to play competitively with because I was new to the game. But with my hours on the court, I have quickly become better than many in my area, so I have fewer people to challenge me. So, I work on what I can with whomever I am playing or practicing with which unfortunately is slowing my progress a bit as most seem to be 3.5 where I'm at.

OK, now I think I understand better. Like pvaudio suggested, if you are on such a strict training regimen you've got to take wholistic approach. Forget string durability, go for what is safer for your arm and more effective for your game. Dead poly will wreck your arm AND your game. I've been there done that (re: Gosen Polylon that never breaks). There is no easy/cheap way around. I'm sorry but 100 hours per string job is a ridiculous idea for serious player like you, developing heavy top spin strokes and 100+ mph serve. Natural gut / poly or better yet, full natural gut is just what doctor ordered for someone on tennis courts 3 hours per day, trying to improve to 4.5 level. When you get your own stringer you can experiment with full poly setups and trust me, then you will restring every 5 to 8 hours max to get the desired performance and comfort out of full poly.

[fortun8son]

I think the Iontec is a good idea.
The Hexa is firm.
Try the reg Iontec Salmon(earthworm) before buying a reel of Hexa.
Stay with the full poly, get a machine, and restring the Iontec as needed.

Playing the bejeezus out of a poly until it breaks in 3 weeks is not the same as a rec player that leaves the poly in for a year because it didn't break.

[NLBwell]

If the poly is giving you 80 hours before it breaks and you don't mind dead poly for your arm or the decreased performance, sticking with the poly is fine - I myself wouldn't do it because of arm worries.
I like kevlar stringbeds and have tried most of the pre-packaged sets with the syngut crosses. They last a long time and perform well if you are used to them. I really like ToughGut crosses at higher expense, but more comfortable and more feel, spin, and power. I wore through the kevlar before the gut broke.
Also, I don't understand why people think 100+ hours a week is outrageous. If you don't have a job and you want to improve, why would you practice less than 4 hours per day? (You are not a kid worried about damages to growing joints or old enough to not be able to play that much and stay healthy) When my college roommate and I graduated college and didn't yet have jobs we practiced 8 to 12 hours per day. (Of course,not having jobs, we didn't have much money)

[mmk]

Originally Posted by NLBwell

If the poly is giving you 80 hours before it breaks and you don't mind dead poly for your arm or the decreased performance, sticking with the poly is fine - I myself wouldn't do it because of arm worries.
I like kevlar stringbeds and have tried most of the pre-packaged sets with the syngut crosses. They last a long time and perform well if you are used to them. I really like ToughGut crosses at higher expense, but more comfortable and more feel, spin, and power. I wore through the kevlar before the gut broke.
Also, I don't understand why people think 100+ hours a week is outrageous. If you don't have a job and you want to improve, why would you practice less than 4 hours per day? (You are not a kid worried about damages to growing joints or old enough to not be able to play that much and stay healthy) When my college roommate and I graduated college and didn't yet have jobs we practiced 8 to 12 hours per day. (Of course,not having jobs, we didn't have much money)

You meant 100+ hours a month, as the OP posted. 100+ a week would be outrageous, 14+ hours a day.

[nyc]

Sounds like investing in a decent stringing machine is the way to go, so that you can quickly and efficiently restring on a regular basis once you get the hand of it.

And I agree with Maxpotatov that using dead poly is doing you more harm than good on many levels. Poly/gut hybrid or sub-$8 full poly that you frequently switch may be the best way to go.

If poly lasts you 10 hours then you're looking at $80/month in string costs if you supply your own labor, with a little machine depreciation tossed in. So perhaps $1200-1400/year.

If you were into motorcycle racing, you'd spend that on a quality helmet and a pair of gloves.


Are you also incorporating any training off-court?

[pvaudio]

Originally Posted by NLBwell

If the poly is giving you 80 hours before it breaks and you don't mind dead poly for your arm or the decreased performance, sticking with the poly is fine - I myself wouldn't do it because of arm worries.
I like kevlar stringbeds and have tried most of the pre-packaged sets with the syngut crosses. They last a long time and perform well if you are used to them. I really like ToughGut crosses at higher expense, but more comfortable and more feel, spin, and power. I wore through the kevlar before the gut broke.
Also, I don't understand why people think 100+ hours a week is outrageous. If you don't have a job and you want to improve, why would you practice less than 4 hours per day? (You are not a kid worried about damages to growing joints or old enough to not be able to play that much and stay healthy) When my college roommate and I graduated college and didn't yet have jobs we practiced 8 to 12 hours per day. (Of course,not having jobs, we didn't have much money)

Because there is a point of limited returns at any age. Academy kids don't even put in that many hours. The longer you put in on the court, the more you put your body through. As I'm sure you're well aware, you need to give your body a chance to recover if you want to get better. If you're constantly building muscle and increasing flexibility, going hard 4 hours a day, every day for a year is not maximizing what your body can give you. You're going to need an off day or two, and even then, all that time should not be spent playing tennis. As nyc rightly said, some of that has to be off-court training: agility, plyometrics, endurance, etc. If I didn't need to work and/or go to school, AND I always had a good hitting partner AND I had the money to do it, I would be damn sure that by this time next year, I would be troubling 5.0s. I would fix my strokes, fix my serve, increase my fitness level, everything. But now I'm getting off topic

But to the OP, as now a few of us have said, if you're really serious about this, then you're going to need to invest in your improvement. I didn't even see that phoenix mentioned practicing with dead balls when I'd mentioned it, but he is right. It's much the same.

[nyc]

Originally Posted by pvaudio

The longer you put in on the court, the more you put your body through. As I'm sure you're well aware, you need to give your body a chance to recover if you want to get better. If you're constantly building muscle and increasing flexibility, going hard 4 hours a day, every day for a year is not maximizing what your body can give you. You're going to need an off day or two, and even then, all that time should not be spent playing tennis.

+1

It sounds awesome and good on you what you're trying to do - I for one am certainly jealous.

Perhaps you already have a holistic plan in place or you're figuring it out as you go, but I do hope you're incorporating fitness, coaching, proper nutrition and perhaps a little massage here and there into your regimen.

Back to strings:

Alternatively, find a local High School kid that knows how to string to get your racquets done at a good price?

If you get a little bit of a ranking, you could always apply for sponsorship with a string company - I'm a pretty crappy player but I do enjoy a partial sponsorship from a string company with decent poly products - it helps.

Or you could always open a stringing business and get strings at wholesale prices.

[anubis]

Originally Posted by nyc

Sounds like investing in a decent stringing machine is the way to go, so that you can quickly and efficiently restring on a regular basis once you get the hand of it.

And I agree with Maxpotatov that using dead poly is doing you more harm than good on many levels. Poly/gut hybrid or sub-$8 full poly that you frequently switch may be the best way to go.

If poly lasts you 10 hours then you're looking at $80/month in string costs if you supply your own labor, with a little machine depreciation tossed in. So perhaps $1200-1400/year.

If you were into motorcycle racing, you'd spend that on a quality helmet and a pair of gloves.


Are you also incorporating any training off-court?

LOL. Whenever I get depressed about how much money I spend playing tennis, I remind myself how much my fiance spends on her horse. I can buy three new racquets every month, and a Prince NEOS 1500 every year, for the amount that she spends.

Tennis can be expensive, but when put into perspective, not nearly as expensive as many other sports and recreations.

[NLBwell]

Originally Posted by mmk

You meant 100+ hours a month, as the OP posted. 100+ a week would be outrageous, 14+ hours a day.

Yes, that was a little silly.

[jason586]

I've only strung on cranks, not drop weights. So, today an older friend that I hit with from time to time said he was going to bring his $160 Klippermate tomorrow and let me string one of my racquets to see how I like it before I buy one. He also said he would string my racquets any time for only $5, so I might just do that instead until another friend decides to offload his better machine this coming summer as mentioned in my earlier post. If I use something like a reel of Iontec, then that would be only $16 string + $20 labor per month if I restring once a week (I will try the various Iontec before I buy a reel).
I am going to at least give the Kevlar a shot since I already traded for it and have never tried it - maybe I will like and maybe not. I plan to string the Vantage 95" with the Kevlar mains at 50 lbs and the OGSM crosses at 55lbs unless someone convinces of a better tension.

I absolutely understand diminishing returns, and I do take an extra day off if I my body is saying to. I did take a 2 month family vacation in the summer in which I played almost no tennis and let my body rest. I was fairly worn down after 9 months of extensive playing, but while on vacation I researched a lot online and found a partial solution that has helped me immensely with fatigue, energy, and lactic acid build up in my legs when playing so much - the amino acid, Beta Alanine. I had never heard of it before, but the difference when I take it is night and day. My wife has also seen a measurable increase in energy and stamina by taking it as well. The bonus is that it is very cheap! There is a lot of info on it online if anyone is interested; I bought mine on amazon. We also do take nutrition seriously and eat mostly whole grains, vegetables, fruits and limit our junk food. I do not exercise outside of the extensive hours on the courts though, but tennis does keep me in pretty great shape. I understand endurance training outside of tennis would help, but I will likely not be doing it. I am not that serious as I enjoy the challenge and progress in tennis. It is not work for me, but the extra training outside of tennis would be very unenjoyable. Ultimately, I'm 37 and not trying to go pro. But I believe I can get to 5.0 and have made good progress in 15 months, but I'm sure (like in golf) this is the point where it is just starting to get harder to improve. Shooting 80 is difficult, but breaking 70 is a whole new ballgame.

To go a little off track: More than just great exercise and the challenge of playing quality tennis is that I have 4 young daughters with 2 lefties and 2 righties (ages - 2, 3.5, 5, 6.5) and a wife who is really taking to tennis after 4 months of playing. So, all the knowledge and training that I have acquired is being passed on to them now. Recently my wife and I have started going out to the courts 3 days a week for a few hours and feed each other balls and work on our game as well. My oldest is really wanting to play more and more as well. We are even considering buying a tennis club as there is one in our area that is closed down a few miles away and another that is losing money a few miles the other direction. The prices are extremely low and 50% below appraised value. The problem now is that lending is difficult to get on negative cash flow small businesses even if putting 20-35% down. So for now, we use the public courts which are all but vacant from about 10:30-3:30 and free to use.

Back to stringing: I read that the Black Iontec is the softest, then the Salmon, then the Hexa. I like a firm stringbed and have a open string 16x19 pattern which is why I was leaning toward the Hexa. I was using the i.prestige MP and really liked the firm 18x20 bed but with the amount of play I was doing, I could not handle the nearly 12.5+oz racquet's weight over time which is what lead me to the Vantages. So if I try the kevlar and it is not for me, which Iontec is the closest to the firmness of full BB ALU?
I have played Black Magic, Polylon, PL II, Lux Savage Black, all the BB ALUs; and I liked the firmness of the Polylon and ALU over the softer PLII and Black Magic.
So if I I try the kevlar and it is not for me, which Iontec is the closest to the firmness of full BB ALU? I've also considered Cyberflash, but I guess they changed the formula from what I read?
No matter what I poly use though, it will be better than the dead poly I've been using if I start stringing a racquet every week.

[pvaudio]

Regular salmon Iontec is the best, IMO. And yes, seriously, if you hit 12 hours a week, you need to be restringing at LEAST every 15 hours if you're serious about improvement.