Michael Joyce rates Rios talent above Agassi and Sampras

[Gonzalito17]

"I played with Agassi and Sampras two or three times each. But I always tell people that Rios was the best tennis player that I ever played. If he had the same mental as Agassi, I mean...he was tougher than Agassi to play. The things he could do on a tennis court were amazing." --Michael Joyce (From Rios book "Marcelo Rios: The Man We Barely Knew")

Strong praises by Michael Joyce but you have to respect his point of view, having played each of the players numerous times. Rios was a wonder of a talented player, so unique and distinct, yet confusingly mysterious.

[Devilito]

styles make matches, and while Rios may have given Andre a bit of hell, Petros would have eaten his lunch 9/10 times on any surface but clay

[Gonzalito17]

Petros only actually played Rios twice, once when Rios was still a teen at Roland Garros and at the end of Rios career indoors. Both times Rios tested Peter and gave him trouble. Prime Rios could have conceivably toyed with Petros like he did Andy Agassi in Miami and Munich.

[Power Player]

The huge key is the "if he had the same mental.." part of the quote.

Mentality is such a huge part of tennis that it must be factored in.

[Devilito]

Originally Posted by Gonzalito17

Prime Rios could have conceivably toyed with Petros

the only "toying" Rios was ever a part of was when Korda toyed with him like a pro toying with a 5.0

[Tennishacker]

Odd comment by Joyce, (mostly a journeyman)

Problem with Rios was that he had too many "shot" choices.

[hoodjem]

There are big differences between "talent" and "ability," "ability" and "production," and "production" and "achievements."

Rios may have been great at the front end, but . . . .

[Tagg]

maybe playing tennis came more naturally to him, more effortlessly

however, rios did not have the commitment, mentality or desire to become a legend of the game

maybe he didn't ever want that, but nonetheless, sampras and agassi were two of the most natural talents tennis has ever seen

rios is one of those players who was made for highlight reels

[Gonzalito17]

Originally Posted by Devilito

the only "toying" Rios was ever a part of was when Korda toyed with him like a pro toying with a 5.0

Something was not right about that match. Just one year earlier at the 97 Australian Open, Rios played Korda in the first round and beat him 76 63 63. I think Rios was tight in the 98 final, he was not able to play his best tennis. Also, at the 98 Indian Wells tourney, Rios beat Korda 64 62.

Looks like Rios toyed with Korda those two match Devilito )

[Gonzalito17]

Originally Posted by Tagg

maybe playing tennis came more naturally to him, more effortlessly

however, rios did not have the commitment, mentality or desire to become a legend of the game

maybe he didn't ever want that, but nonetheless, sampras and agassi were two of the most natural talents tennis has ever seen

rios is one of those players who was made for highlight reels

Well said Tagg. I think also Rios liked to play on his terms, to play a style which he enjoyed to play, which was not necessarily smart strategic grinding tennis. He was more of an free wheeling artist on the court as opposed to a chess playing tactician.

[LeeD]

Physical talent seldom coincides with mental talent, toughness, or determination.
If he had it all, it wouldn't be fair.

[Mick]

that's kinda like saying Wozniacki is more talented than Graf and Serena (slamless vs multi-slam champions)

[LeeD]

I'd say Woz is less talented physically, yes.

[NLBwell]

Originally Posted by Mick

that's kinda like saying Wozniacki is more talented than Graf and Serena (slamless vs multi-slam champions)

No, no it's not.

It's pretty much the opposite. Wozniaki wins by determination, hard work, and consistency. Rios had none of those things (at least compared to other top pros). He had talent, however, that amazed the other pros.

[Gonzalito17]

Agree, Wozniacki has normal basic tennis talent nothing astoundingly extraordinary outside of her consistency and mental toughness. Rios on the other hand was the complete opposite, he was a wizardlike artist creating magic on the court which dazzled and amazed opponents, fans, media, everyone. Only a Rios could invent a jumping backhand two hander. Only Rios could fall on his *** against Agassi in Munich and smack an overhead winner while sitting on his arse.

[Gonzalito17]

Originally Posted by LeeD

Physical talent seldom coincides with mental talent, toughness, or determination.
If he had it all, it wouldn't be fair.

True, LeeD. Do you think Federer falls into this category?

[Razoredge]

Originally Posted by Mick

that's kinda like saying Wozniacki is more talented than Graf and Serena (slamless vs multi-slam champions)

There's no female equivalent to Rios, maybe the closest would be Mandlikova but she won multiple slams.

[LeeD]

Goolagong, Sabatini, Venus.

[Razoredge]

Not so sure about Venus, regardless though they've all won slams, Rios hasn't.

[LeeD]

Thought it was talent vs less talent, not slam wins vs no slam wins.
Watch Venus play basketball and table tennis, you'll be amazed.