What String Combo to use for 100+ hours a month of play/practice - Kevlar??? - Page 3

COPEY · 12-04-2012, 08:02 PM

Buy a nice crank, then let your friend use it, maybe even park it at his place. The catch is he strings your racquets when necessary; all you supply is the string. I mean, if it's about time for you that seems like a reasonable arrangement. Your friend gets to use a nicer, less labor intensive machine at his convenience, and you get your racquets done without an investment of time - win/win. Well, I guess the downside for your friend would be he probably wouldn't want to go back to his Klippermate after using a nice crank.

Edit: On second thought, if you're into this game as much as you seem to be, invest in a nice upright, electronic machine so that your stringing experience is enjoyable and do them yourself.

tommyfr · 12-05-2012, 05:18 AM

Ok try the Kevlar route as you already have these strings coming.

And if you dont like it, why not go for a combo with Poly and synthetic gut. That hybrid have longer play-ability and, for many like me, more touch and feel than full poly.

And as you are not a string breaker , also like me, this hybrid will probably have long lifetime as well.

(Btw, both me and one of my partners are at 4.5 level. He a promising junior breaks his stings be it full poly or hybrid, after about 4-5 hours. And i break them maybe after 30 hours. I have a bit cleaner strokes, he has many mishits and faster racket head speed.My age is 50 +.)

If you find a really durable Sg you might be able to play quite a long time with that hybrid, but probably not near 100 hours.

2ndServe · 12-05-2012, 05:51 AM

kevlar and a durable syngut cross (soft poly) + string savers is your answer. This lasts me forever. Get the 17g maybe 16g kevlar if you need even more durability. No multi on the crosses because it will fray and break before the mains.

Boricua · 12-05-2012, 06:56 AM

"I am 37 and semi-retired, so I have a lot of time and have enjoyed the challenge of becoming a quality tennis player."

What is your secret to be semiretired at 37? Good investments, Powerball winner or you married a rich girl?

anubis · 12-05-2012, 07:01 AM

All this seems counter-intuitive to me. The strings should be the tool of the player to achieve the best performance on court:
1) more wins
2) fewest UE's
3) most consisitency
4) most control

The string matters, and you can't just pick any ol' string and just "go with it". Changing a setup drastically could mean twice as many unforced errors, which translates into more losses.

If longevity is the only concern, then yes, one can find very resilient string that can last for dozens of hours of play time. But at what cost?

If your current setup gets you where you want to go, gets you the wins you need, the control you need, then if you change to a more resilient string, you may see other aspects of your game suffer.

This is why pro players use the strings that they do. Yes, they last only a couple of hours. Yes, it requires frequent re-stringing (didn't Serena re-string around 75 times in one of the Masters tournaments this year?), but it gets them wins and it gives them confidence.

Find the string that lets you do exactly what you WANT to do on the court, and you'll find your "magic bullet". If you've found that string, then great: keep using it. I know you play for hundreds of hours, but so what? What good is it to practice the right strokes with the wrong string? All you're doing is training your muscle memory to remember the wrong result.

If you turn around and play an "important match" and then switch to whatever is your "high performance" strings, then how are your muscles going to switch gears? You've just logged hundreds of hours with the wrong string, with your shots landing in areas where they normally wouldn't with better string.

Just my hypothetical 0.02.

pvaudio · 12-05-2012, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anubis

All this seems counter-intuitive to me. The strings should be the tool of the player to achieve the best performance on court:
1) more wins
2) fewest UE's
3) most consisitency
4) most control

The string matters, and you can't just pick any ol' string and just "go with it". Changing a setup drastically could mean twice as many unforced errors, which translates into more losses.

If longevity is the only concern, then yes, one can find very resilient string that can last for dozens of hours of play time. But at what cost?

If your current setup gets you where you want to go, gets you the wins you need, the control you need, then if you change to a more resilient string, you may see other aspects of your game suffer.

This is why pro players use the strings that they do. Yes, they last only a couple of hours. Yes, it requires frequent re-stringing (didn't Serena re-string around 75 times in one of the Masters tournaments this year?), but it gets them wins and it gives them confidence.

Find the string that lets you do exactly what you WANT to do on the court, and you'll find your "magic bullet". If you've found that string, then great: keep using it. I know you play for hundreds of hours, but so what? What good is it to practice the right strokes with the wrong string? All you're doing is training your muscle memory to remember the wrong result.

If you turn around and play an "important match" and then switch to whatever is your "high performance" strings, then how are your muscles going to switch gears? You've just logged hundreds of hours with the wrong string, with your shots landing in areas where they normally wouldn't with better string.

Just my hypothetical 0.02.

Serena is just one of those special cases. Her sister, likewise, used one frame during an entire match. Just kept changing the overgrip on changeovers.

Muppet · 12-05-2012, 09:53 AM

I think I've noticed something in your reasoning about tennis. It seems that you want to spend Y amount of dollars for X amount of tennis, while the rest of us spend X amount of dollars for X amount of tennis. Your willingness to make an effort to reach 5.0 in three years or so, while it usually takes ten or more years is noble, but it doesn't make a "tennis unit" cost any less. What you will save on for your efforts is years of being stuck on plateus.

The amount of drive and initiative that you show turns up on the other end of the equation as giving your body a beating with dead poly. I think you have to decide either to spend more on the intense amount you're training, or play less. Playing less wouldn't be a bad option. It would keep the sport fresh for you, anticipating your next court time. It's like over-playing your newest CD, instead of spreading it out over the years.

pvaudio · 12-05-2012, 09:58 AM

^^^ That is fantastically put.

jason586 · 12-05-2012, 12:04 PM

Quote: "What is your secret to be semiretired at 37? Good investments, Powerball winner or you married a rich girl?"

Basically, good investments in real estate.
More specifically: Flipping my primary residence for tax-free capital gains every 2 years. 80+% is buying right. That is why I say semi-retired is that we still change homes every 2ish years for the tax-free profits. I bought my 1st home at age 20 after graduating college with a 20/80 where the seller held the 20% with a 3 year balloon; and with the profits on each home I paid off student loans, credit cards, mortgages, etc. After paying everything off and getting to zero debt, interest is on your side. It is a lot cheaper to live without car payments, mortgage payments, etc; plus now you are receiving interest on the money you are building up. Right now, I'm looking to buy as my 2 years is up at my current primary residence in March 2013.

I strung the 17ga Ashaway Kevlar mains at 50lbs / 16 ga OGSM crosses at 56lbs today on my friend's Klippermate. I took awhile because we were talking a lot, and I was getting the hang of a dropweight stringer. Honestly, it was really easy to string on; no issues at all. The Kevlar was not as difficult to string as I thought it would be, but you could really tell the massive difference of stretching in the two strings to get the dropweight back to parallel.

I am taking today off from playing, so I will try out the racquet tomorrow.

Quote: "kevlar and a durable syngut cross (soft poly) + string savers is your answer. This lasts me forever."

Are strings savers even necessary with 17ga Kevlar and 16ga OGSM???

jason586 · 12-05-2012, 12:08 PM

Yes, I agree I need to do something different which is why I am looking for a solution and was hoping for an answer other than "restring your racquet every few days (10-15 hours)". At the beginning strings probably did not matter quite as much for me, but the difference in fresh strings and dead poly continues to make a bigger and bigger difference as my skills improve and playing more difficult opponents.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anubis

All this seems counter-intuitive to me. The strings should be the tool of the player to achieve the best performance on court:
1) more wins
2) fewest UE's
3) most consisitency
4) most control

The string matters, and you can't just pick any ol' string and just "go with it". Changing a setup drastically could mean twice as many unforced errors, which translates into more losses.

If longevity is the only concern, then yes, one can find very resilient string that can last for dozens of hours of play time. But at what cost?

If your current setup gets you where you want to go, gets you the wins you need, the control you need, then if you change to a more resilient string, you may see other aspects of your game suffer.

This is why pro players use the strings that they do. Yes, they last only a couple of hours. Yes, it requires frequent re-stringing (didn't Serena re-string around 75 times in one of the Masters tournaments this year?), but it gets them wins and it gives them confidence.

Find the string that lets you do exactly what you WANT to do on the court, and you'll find your "magic bullet". If you've found that string, then great: keep using it. I know you play for hundreds of hours, but so what? What good is it to practice the right strokes with the wrong string? All you're doing is training your muscle memory to remember the wrong result.

If you turn around and play an "important match" and then switch to whatever is your "high performance" strings, then how are your muscles going to switch gears? You've just logged hundreds of hours with the wrong string, with your shots landing in areas where they normally wouldn't with better string.

Just my hypothetical 0.02.

anubis · 12-06-2012, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason586

Yes, I agree I need to do something different which is why I am looking for a solution and was hoping for an answer other than "restring your racquet every few days (10-15 hours)". At the beginning strings probably did not matter quite as much for me, but the difference in fresh strings and dead poly continues to make a bigger and bigger difference as my skills improve and playing more difficult opponents.

you are looking for a "solution" where there is no problem. having to restring every 10 to 15 hours is completely normal and expected when you play with high performance strings. You aren't going to get the performance that you need to play at your level with strings that will last literally dozens of hours before they die.

Your best solution is to do what all the pros do: have multiple racquets. I have 3 of the same racquet with the same strings and same tensions, and in the height of tennis season I'm only playing 10 hours per week.

In your case, I recommend 6 identical racquets with the same strings and tensions. You can probably get away with only re-stringing once per week, and you always have fresh strings.

Honestly, I have friends who are 5.0s that compete nationally. They are sponsored by major tennis brands and get free racquets every year. They restring their racquets every single day. they buy reels and reels of string. They play as much or more than you.

All I can say, is you're living the life of a semi-professional tennis player and this is how it is. It can be tedious, but be thankful you have this opportunity and that you're healthy and without injuries (I hope).

good luck

Power Player · 12-06-2012, 06:02 AM

Ok, OP is super analytical - it works, it has made him successful.

Also, I applaud your confidence in reselling every 2 years in this housing market. I honestly love stuff like this, and love reading about it.

Since you are really focused on efficiency, it makes sense that you would think over practicing will get you to the place you want to be. It won't work that way. You have to factor in recovery time in sports or you will get hurt and derail everything.

Past that - without a doubt buy a stringing machine.If at all possible do not get a drop weight. Since you are smart about money, let me drop a few facts in :

1. No string job will last as long as you want. The closest is natural gut. So either get natural gut or read on.

2. The cost of getting a racquet strung is $20-$30, so let's call it $25. At the rate you play, you need to have 2 sticks ready. I would string one a week with the hybrid setup you use so that way you are rotating in a fresh stick and the old one can be an emergency backup until it is restrung. That will cost you $100 a month in stringing fees.

3. If you buy a reel of OGSM for $40 and a reel of Black Magic for $95ish your string beds will cost you less than $5.

4. If you buy a good stringing machine for $500 you will pay for it in less than 6 months, and your total cost for tennis stringing will be $20 a month.

5. Im summation, following my system you will always have a fresh stringbed every week and your total cost for stringing will be under $30 a month after the initial investment of a string machine and 2 reels.

Hope that helps.

jason586 · 12-07-2012, 01:49 PM

I read most the TT posts on Iontec strings and read that you thought Iontec Hexa 1.25 was too soft even after you went up to 52 lbs.
*Did you use it in a full bed or hybrid? (I'm planning on trying it with a full bed)
*Did you ever try higher than 52 lbs?
*Did you try raising the tension on the crosses to firm up the Hexa 1.25 stringbed ?
*The most recent poly used is Genesis Black Magic - How would you compare BM to Hexa 1.25 and which feels softer/less crisp?
*I read that you felt you lost some feel as well with the Iontec Hexa - I have been playing with a leather grip (no overgrip), so maybe that will help with some of the the lack of feel?
*My Vantage 95" is an open pattern 16x19, but it is the firmer 70 flex. So the 1.25 Hexa may play well in it since it is a firm racquet? (I also like a boardy feel in a racquet. My favorite feel to date was my i.prestige MP 18x20 with full poly, but the weight was too much over time as mine was nearly 13oz with dampener, leather, and overgrip.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Power Player

Ok, OP is super analytical - it works, it has made him successful.

Also, I applaud your confidence in reselling every 2 years in this housing market. I honestly love stuff like this, and love reading about it.

jason586 · 12-10-2012, 03:29 PM

Well, I have played with the Kevlar hybrid for 4 days - 10 sets of doubles, 7 sets of singles and about 5 hours of hitting balls/rallying.
I can definitely say that Kevlar 50lbs/OGSM 56lbs has less spin than Genesis BM 56lbs/multi 60lbs. I can also say that this Kevlar hybrid has been a disadvantage over a poly hybrid in singles play for me - once I start playing 4.0+ players.
I played a 3.5 friend, and he won 3 games over 3 sets which is on par with what he usually gets off me. But when I played a 4.0 player the next day, the slightly less pace and spin from the Kevlar hybrid gave him opportunities on balls he normally does not get from me. Also, I did not get near as many free points off my serve as it was slowed enough to make a difference as well. I played the following day against another 4.0, and the results were the same. Everything was a notch down i.e. balls that were normally winners he could get to and rallying balls that were normally returned neutral he was able to be more aggressive on. When I went out with my wife, she even noticed the difference at her level. I switched to my poly hybrid, and she no longer could handle the spin and pace on the same shots. I switched back again to the Kevlar stick, and she could again handle the same shots with slightly less pace and spin.

The Kevlar did have great control, and it helped keep my two-handed backhand in check. I also very much liked playing with it at net in doubles. The stiff bed made volleys easy to control and put where I wanted. I actually like most aspects of playing the Kevlar in doubles except for serving. Again, singles was a different story as I mostly stay on the baseline except for coming in on short balls.
Another big positive of hitting with Kevlar so far is that it was forcing me to grow in my tennis play.....almost like playing with blades in golf.
I have to be much better with my placement and angles.
I have to really make sure I'm not cheating and use the entire kinetic chain on my groundstokes.
I had to coil my shoulders much further back on serve to gain extra spin and pace. When I served with my poly/multi hybrid with the new extra coiling, the pace and spin was unreal.

I understand that you want to practice what you play for consistency, but I think I might keep one racquet with the Kevlar hybrid as it helps reminds me where I might be getting sloppy/lazy.
The Kevlar has not lost any of its playability over about 15 hours. Honestly it feels like it is grabbing the ball more, and I am getting more spin the longer it plays. I have not completely given up on playing singles with Kevlar as next time, I will string it with a slicker co-poly cross like MSV Co-Focus and drop the tension from 50lbs/56lbs to 45lbs/50lbs; I had no pain issues with the Kevlar/SG hybrid.
But at this point, I can not imagine any Kevlar hybrid being more spinny and having enough pace to compete with even a low cost full poly bed such as Iontec Hexa.

zapvor · 12-10-2012, 07:08 PM

wow. kevlar for that much court time.

tlm · 12-13-2012, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Power Player

Ok, OP is super analytical - it works, it has made him successful.

Also, I applaud your confidence in reselling every 2 years in this housing market. I honestly love stuff like this, and love reading about it.

Since you are really focused on efficiency, it makes sense that you would think over practicing will get you to the place you want to be. It won't work that way. You have to factor in recovery time in sports or you will get hurt and derail everything.

Past that - without a doubt buy a stringing machine.If at all possible do not get a drop weight. Since you are smart about money, let me drop a few facts in :

1. No string job will last as long as you want. The closest is natural gut. So either get natural gut or read on.

2. The cost of getting a racquet strung is $20-$30, so let's call it $25. At the rate you play, you need to have 2 sticks ready. I would string one a week with the hybrid setup you use so that way you are rotating in a fresh stick and the old one can be an emergency backup until it is restrung. That will cost you $100 a month in stringing fees.

3. If you buy a reel of OGSM for $40 and a reel of Black Magic for $95ish your string beds will cost you less than $5.

4. If you buy a good stringing machine for $500 you will pay for it in less than 6 months, and your total cost for tennis stringing will be $20 a month.

5. Im summation, following my system you will always have a fresh stringbed every week and your total cost for stringing will be under $30 a month after the initial investment of a string machine and 2 reels.

Hope that helps.

This is good advise but I don't understand the reason for not buying a drop weight machine.

12-04-2012, 08:02 PM	#41
COPEY Professional Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,397	Buy a nice crank, then let your friend use it, maybe even park it at his place. The catch is he strings your racquets when necessary; all you supply is the string. I mean, if it's about time for you that seems like a reasonable arrangement. Your friend gets to use a nicer, less labor intensive machine at his convenience, and you get your racquets done without an investment of time - win/win. Well, I guess the downside for your friend would be he probably wouldn't want to go back to his Klippermate after using a nice crank. Edit: On second thought, if you're into this game as much as you seem to be, invest in a nice upright, electronic machine so that your stringing experience is enjoyable and do them yourself. __________________ Need help finding lost dog: walks with a limp, recently castrated, can only see out of one eye - answers to the name, "Lucky". Last edited by COPEY : 12-05-2012 at 03:26 AM.

12-05-2012, 09:53 AM	#47
Muppet Professional Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Boston Posts: 888	I think I've noticed something in your reasoning about tennis. It seems that you want to spend Y amount of dollars for X amount of tennis, while the rest of us spend X amount of dollars for X amount of tennis. Your willingness to make an effort to reach 5.0 in three years or so, while it usually takes ten or more years is noble, but it doesn't make a "tennis unit" cost any less. What you will save on for your efforts is years of being stuck on plateus. The amount of drive and initiative that you show turns up on the other end of the equation as giving your body a beating with dead poly. I think you have to decide either to spend more on the intense amount you're training, or play less. Playing less wouldn't be a bad option. It would keep the sport fresh for you, anticipating your next court time. It's like over-playing your newest CD, instead of spreading it out over the years. __________________ sharp < > lucid

12-05-2012, 12:04 PM	#49
jason586 Rookie Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 149	Quote: "What is your secret to be semiretired at 37? Good investments, Powerball winner or you married a rich girl?" Basically, good investments in real estate. More specifically: Flipping my primary residence for tax-free capital gains every 2 years. 80+% is buying right. That is why I say semi-retired is that we still change homes every 2ish years for the tax-free profits. I bought my 1st home at age 20 after graduating college with a 20/80 where the seller held the 20% with a 3 year balloon; and with the profits on each home I paid off student loans, credit cards, mortgages, etc. After paying everything off and getting to zero debt, interest is on your side. It is a lot cheaper to live without car payments, mortgage payments, etc; plus now you are receiving interest on the money you are building up. Right now, I'm looking to buy as my 2 years is up at my current primary residence in March 2013. I strung the 17ga Ashaway Kevlar mains at 50lbs / 16 ga OGSM crosses at 56lbs today on my friend's Klippermate. I took awhile because we were talking a lot, and I was getting the hang of a dropweight stringer. Honestly, it was really easy to string on; no issues at all. The Kevlar was not as difficult to string as I thought it would be, but you could really tell the massive difference of stretching in the two strings to get the dropweight back to parallel. I am taking today off from playing, so I will try out the racquet tomorrow. Quote: "kevlar and a durable syngut cross (soft poly) + string savers is your answer. This lasts me forever." Are strings savers even necessary with 17ga Kevlar and 16ga OGSM??? __________________ RACQUETS: Vantage 95 (Strung: 11.6 oz, 3HL, 67ra, 16x19, 27") CURRENT STRING: Genesis BM 16 @ 54lbs Mains / OGSM (white) 17 @ 58lbs Crosses Last edited by jason586 : 12-05-2012 at 12:23 PM.

12-06-2012, 06:02 AM	#52
Power Player G.O.A.T. Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: On my iPhone Posts: 13,545	Ok, OP is super analytical - it works, it has made him successful. Also, I applaud your confidence in reselling every 2 years in this housing market. I honestly love stuff like this, and love reading about it. Since you are really focused on efficiency, it makes sense that you would think over practicing will get you to the place you want to be. It won't work that way. You have to factor in recovery time in sports or you will get hurt and derail everything. Past that - without a doubt buy a stringing machine.If at all possible do not get a drop weight. Since you are smart about money, let me drop a few facts in : 1. No string job will last as long as you want. The closest is natural gut. So either get natural gut or read on. 2. The cost of getting a racquet strung is $20-$30, so let's call it $25. At the rate you play, you need to have 2 sticks ready. I would string one a week with the hybrid setup you use so that way you are rotating in a fresh stick and the old one can be an emergency backup until it is restrung. That will cost you $100 a month in stringing fees. 3. If you buy a reel of OGSM for $40 and a reel of Black Magic for $95ish your string beds will cost you less than $5. 4. If you buy a good stringing machine for $500 you will pay for it in less than 6 months, and your total cost for tennis stringing will be $20 a month. 5. Im summation, following my system you will always have a fresh stringbed every week and your total cost for stringing will be under $30 a month after the initial investment of a string machine and 2 reels. Hope that helps. __________________ 🐐ing

12-10-2012, 03:29 PM	#54
jason586 Rookie Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 149	Well, I have played with the Kevlar hybrid for 4 days - 10 sets of doubles, 7 sets of singles and about 5 hours of hitting balls/rallying. I can definitely say that Kevlar 50lbs/OGSM 56lbs has less spin than Genesis BM 56lbs/multi 60lbs. I can also say that this Kevlar hybrid has been a disadvantage over a poly hybrid in singles play for me - once I start playing 4.0+ players. I played a 3.5 friend, and he won 3 games over 3 sets which is on par with what he usually gets off me. But when I played a 4.0 player the next day, the slightly less pace and spin from the Kevlar hybrid gave him opportunities on balls he normally does not get from me. Also, I did not get near as many free points off my serve as it was slowed enough to make a difference as well. I played the following day against another 4.0, and the results were the same. Everything was a notch down i.e. balls that were normally winners he could get to and rallying balls that were normally returned neutral he was able to be more aggressive on. When I went out with my wife, she even noticed the difference at her level. I switched to my poly hybrid, and she no longer could handle the spin and pace on the same shots. I switched back again to the Kevlar stick, and she could again handle the same shots with slightly less pace and spin. The Kevlar did have great control, and it helped keep my two-handed backhand in check. I also very much liked playing with it at net in doubles. The stiff bed made volleys easy to control and put where I wanted. I actually like most aspects of playing the Kevlar in doubles except for serving. Again, singles was a different story as I mostly stay on the baseline except for coming in on short balls. Another big positive of hitting with Kevlar so far is that it was forcing me to grow in my tennis play.....almost like playing with blades in golf. I have to be much better with my placement and angles. I have to really make sure I'm not cheating and use the entire kinetic chain on my groundstokes. I had to coil my shoulders much further back on serve to gain extra spin and pace. When I served with my poly/multi hybrid with the new extra coiling, the pace and spin was unreal. I understand that you want to practice what you play for consistency, but I think I might keep one racquet with the Kevlar hybrid as it helps reminds me where I might be getting sloppy/lazy. The Kevlar has not lost any of its playability over about 15 hours. Honestly it feels like it is grabbing the ball more, and I am getting more spin the longer it plays. I have not completely given up on playing singles with Kevlar as next time, I will string it with a slicker co-poly cross like MSV Co-Focus and drop the tension from 50lbs/56lbs to 45lbs/50lbs; I had no pain issues with the Kevlar/SG hybrid. But at this point, I can not imagine any Kevlar hybrid being more spinny and having enough pace to compete with even a low cost full poly bed such as Iontec Hexa. __________________ RACQUETS: Vantage 95 (Strung: 11.6 oz, 3HL, 67ra, 16x19, 27") CURRENT STRING: Genesis BM 16 @ 54lbs Mains / OGSM (white) 17 @ 58lbs Crosses Last edited by jason586 : 12-10-2012 at 03:31 PM.