Orange Bowl 2012

[Bash and Crash]

Originally Posted by GRANITECHIEF

Mackie lost to Greg Jones atp 373 in both Tib and Sac challengers quals, Sac was 4-6 in 3rd. He's also has two futures wins in doubs. He's 0 for 8 reaching main draw in futures quallies. He's showing promise at 17, getting great experience and will be getting ranking points soon.

Alta lost to Thatcher in Tib, was deep in almost every game, but inexperience won out. Also Thatcher (23) is on the upswing regularly winning rounds in futures lately. Alta is 16, 17 in a few days, and is 2 for 4 reaching reaching main draw in futures quallies. Very few guys without atp points are going to beat him these days. Also showing promise and will be getting ranked soon.

Yep, I watched those two matches and Lovedeep also. Not saying they don't have game, just how deep the pool is. That pack of players between 150 to 400 in the world is full of former great junior players. I really liked that Alta/Thatch match awesome points. Always been a fan of Mackie, lucky UCLA.

[ga tennis]

Way to go Deit!!! Another good win today!!!

[TCF]

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[Jen10isFan]

Originally Posted by TCF

Pretty much all the international guys who are going pro route are long gone by 17 these days. The guys left in the 18s OB and Herr are college level players except for about 2 of them who may have some pro potential.

Not sure where you got your facts to make that claim. The physical nature of the game means that very few teenagers are able to do consistently well in challengers, let alone grand slams.

Below is a list of the highest ranked teenagers. Interesting how there are not that many of them - and none of them are even top 200. Also, none of them are a '95 or '96.

Who are the 17 year old players that you are referring to and what are they ranked?



260 Jiri Vesely CZE 7/10/1993
287 Jason Kubler AUS 5/19/1993
322 Taro Daniel JPN 1/27/1993
341 Luke Saville AUS 2/1/1994
342 Roberto Carballes Baena ESP 3/23/1993
368 Suk Young Jeong KOR 4/12/1993
388 Dominic Thiem AUT 9/3/1993
402 Ricardo Rodriguez VEN 4/28/1993
413 Thiago Monteiro BRA 5/31/1994
418 Oliver Golding GBR 9/29/1993
426 Mate Pavic CRO 7/4/1993
438 Bruno Santanna BRA 7/12/1993
448 Juan Ignacio Londero ARG 8/15/1993
453 Adam Pavlasek CZE 10/8/1994
474 Alex Bolt AUS 1/5/1993
477 Joao Pedro Sorgi BRA 10/18/1993
479 Christian Harrison USA 5/29/1994
521 Ji Sung Nam KOR 8/15/1993

[Tcbtennis]

I had the opportunity to watch some of Deitman's match today. When I arrived the score was 4-6;1-0 and when I left it was 4-6;6-3;3-1. I was very excited when I arrived and saw his name on the placard that list the names and scores of the current players on court. I also tried to figure out which of the spectators was Brad. I had to leave early so it's nice to learn that he won the match against the #4 seed from Croatia.

I'm not a tennis player or a coach so all my tennis knowledge is what I've learned by watching my kids play. In my opinion, Deitman's has a very nice game. He seems to prefer his backhand, which he hits pretty flat, over his forehand. He has a big serve. Is he pro material? I have no idea but I wish him all the best. I hope that he is enjoying the journey of junior tennis. He is easy to root for because of his cool demeanor on the court. Good job to make it to the quarterfinals of the Orange Bowl as a wild card. That's called taking advantage of the opportunity!

[ga tennis]

And another great win in doubles today!!

[TCF]

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[Jen10isFan]

Originally Posted by TCF

Thats not what I said. Did not say they were ranked, did not say they even made the right decision to leave juniors.

What I said, and coaching32years said, is that the last few years the international guys 14-18 have left the juniors and are playing futures. Thats why the OB field is not what it was 10 years ago.

Fair enough. BUT - who are the top '95 players that did not play OB this year and where are they ranked in the Pros? Just curious.

Thanks.

[TCF]

=======================

[tommyfr]

I think TCFs claim that many top boys juniors leave ITF jr competition age 14-16 and start on the pro tour that young age, playing Futures/Challengers, is not correct. There are very few of them, and usually they mix it up with futures and Junior tournaments....so they have junior ranking as well.

However, for girls it is more like that, some of the best jump to the pro tour early and leave ITF juniors completely at age 16. Still most of them mix it up and at least play jr GS, but not all.

Girls mature earlier and I think there also are rules on max pro tournaments for certain ages that strengthens this difference.

[coaching32yrs]

Originally Posted by TCF

I do not know the answer to that. All I know is I read Zoo Tennis daily. Its seems like once a week I read things like, "15 year old Bob from Russia went to the finals of the Popo Futures" and "16 year old Frank from Norway just won the top pro ITF ".

Coaching32years can give more answers on this one than I can.

Specifically talking Orange Bowl 18s. Back in the day the top 10 seeds would correspond to the top 10 ITF. Now the 3rd seed is like 20th ITF. So obviously the top 10 ITF guys are playing elsewhere.

8 of the top 10 ITF ranked boys are NOT playing the Orange Bowl. The 2 best 18 year old Americans are playing pro and NOT playing the Orange Bowl. The best players from our section never play USTA tournaments. ITF and Futures only. These are the facts. It is the new reality.

[Number1Coach]

Originally Posted by tommyfr

I think TCFs claim that many top boys juniors leave ITF jr competition age 14-16 and start on the pro tour that young age, playing Futures/Challengers, is not correct. There are very few of them, and usually they mix it up with futures and Junior tournaments....so they have junior ranking as well.

However, for girls it is more like that, some of the best jump to the pro tour early and leave ITF juniors completely at age 16. Still most of them mix it up and at least play jr GS, but not all.

Girls mature earlier and I think there also are rules on max pro tournaments for certain ages that strengthens this difference.

what TCF is saying is that he knows nothing and has always claimed to have all the answers and that if DB showed up to Orange Bowl he would get crushed early and never get 10 miles within the finals and as he chips away he is scrambling to realign his position "the fields week none of the real players showed up ect. " tcf is a disgrace to tennis and the USA and he best thing he can do is head out and go work with lil Roxanne and quit posting , dont forget to put on her red dress tonight !!!

[Number1Coach]

Originally Posted by coaching32yrs

8 of the top 10 ITF ranked boys are NOT playing the Orange Bowl. The 2 best 18 year old Americans are playing pro and NOT playing the Orange Bowl. The best players from our section never play USTA tournaments. ITF and Futures only. These are the facts. It is the new reality.

dont forget its on clay

[coaching32yrs]

Originally Posted by Number1Coach

dont forget its on clay

Bravo to the 2 Americans in the quarters. You can only beat the players who show up to play. The fact that players skipped the OB does not diminish their accomplishment. I'm sure you will be going to Australia next month. But there's unfinished business in Fla- hope you complete the mission.

[ChiefAce]

Originally Posted by ga tennis

Way to go Deit!!! Another good win today!!!

A very nice win, but there will always be some excuse as to what this kid can or can't do from the naysayers. Kudos to him for putting in the work necessary to get to this level, and hopefully there will be more success to come.

Considering the other kid (Coric) has done training sessions with Goran Ivanisevic I'd say this is a hell of an accomplishment.

[NLBwell]

Originally Posted by TCF

No he is saying the dad says he has "2 more years to play the Herr and OB". That would mean he would be almost 19 and still be playing them. He turns 17 in a few months.

The poster was saying if he is still playing jrs at age 19 these days it would mean he will not be a successful pro.

So, you are saying that guys like Peliwo have no shot?
And Monfils, and Murray?

[Number1Coach]

Originally Posted by ChiefAce

A very nice win, but there will always be some excuse as to what this kid can or can't do from the naysayers. Kudos to him for putting in the work necessary to get to this level, and hopefully there will be more success to come.

Considering the other kid (Coric) has done training sessions with Goran Ivanisevic I'd say this is a hell of an accomplishment.

You will see this kid Borna on the ATP he is very solid knows how to play has great movement , nice strokes and a very good attitude on court.

Chieface this was a solid win this kid was playing a pusher style the day before against a kid and I thought DB was gonna buzzsaw him next thing i know they are trading huge groundies and long rallies the 1st set and Borna took it , DB continued till he made his way through him but this kid was NO joke by any means .

[ga tennis]

Good luck to Deit today!!! It would be nice to see him win singles and doubles!!!

[kme5150]

Originally Posted by Number1Coach

dont forget its on clay

That is so true. Why would 99% of the country who never play on clay go to it?

J Mac, Agassi, Courier, Chang, Connors, Roddick, Ashe, and Sampras all grew up playing on hard courts and the rest of the world was playing on clay.

It is all about exposure why the USA is not dominating in tennis. In Europe and Asia, tennis is still on tv on a regular basis.

It is sad to say but Americans would rather watch a race car painted like a pack of Lifesavers go around in circles for 4 hours than watch tennis. You have to give Nascar credit, they marketed their product perfectly.

[tennis_ocd]

Originally Posted by kme5150

J Mac, Agassi, Courier, Chang, Connors, Roddick, Ashe, and Sampras all grew up playing on hard courts and the rest of the world was playing on clay.

Interesting of that list only Courier and Roddick won at the OB. Not sure about the others but believe Agassi, Connors and Ashe played there and lost. Add others such as Becker, Graf, Henin, Seles, Wilander who lost at OB and managed to have pretty successful pro careers. (Note some of these OB loses may have been jrs - haven't been able to find a site with historical draws. It'd be neat to see....)

Then how about the 18 boys recent champs since 2004:
Dominic Thiem, George Morgan, Gianni Mina, Yuki Bhambri, Ricardas Berankis, Petru-Alexandru Luncanu, Robin Roshardt, Timothy Neilly

Any of these winners have a pro future?

Seems to me, even with the women, too much going on, too much change physically and mentally to rely on OB results as a harbinger of future success even a couple years distant.