Hardest Section in USTA

[tennisbuck]

Some of there states might even have worse weather than ours

[tennisbuck]

why is this not working for me?

[andfor]

Originally Posted by tennisbuck

what i want to know is though, why is the mid west so much better than the Missouri valley? they don't have any better weather than we do.

The easy answer is more population.

[MarTennis]

Originally Posted by Soianka

I never read that book, but does his book really support the idea of cheating and gamesmanship?

Just curious.

... BG's book does not endorse cheating. It endorses obsessive compulsive tennis, mixing it up and mental toughness.

[Jen10isFan]

Originally Posted by jigglypuff

One player does not a strong section make.

Florida and So. Cal will always be strong. BUT - it all depends on boys vs. girls and the players in the age group at any given time.

PNW have the following players - all more or less in the same age group:

- Mitch Stewart
- Henrik Wiersholm
- Toshiki Matsuya
- Spencer Furman
- Jake Devine (before he moved to Boca)

That would be one heck of a team.

[BHiC]

I think a good, unbiased way to decide which section is the strongest is to see what the national ranking of their 10th highest player is. The only problem is that this can only be done to compare similar gender and age groups so, below are the sections listed with their tenth highest nationally ranked players in the 16s and 18s as of 12/5/12-

B18 -
1. So. Cal - #50
2. Southern - #72
3. Texas - #78
4. Florida - #97
5. Mid West - #105

G18-
1. So.Cal - #39
2. Florida - #46
3. Mid West - #73
4. Southern - #111
5. Eastern - #143

B16s -
1. Mid West - #67
2. Florida - #69
3. So. Cal - #73
4. Eastern - #93
5. Southern - #96

G16s -
1. So. Cal - #53
2. Mid West -#85
3. Texas - #99
4. Southern - #102
5. No. Cal - #126.

[BHiC]

If we give 5 points for #1, 4 points for #2, etc. then the best sections for the 16s and 18s are -

1. So. Cal - 18 pts
2. Mid West - 13 pts
3. Florida - 10 pts
4. Southern - 9 pts
5. Texas - 6 pts
6. Eastern - 3 pts
7. No. Cal - 1 pt

[tennis5]

Originally Posted by BHiC

If we give 5 points for #1, 4 points for #2, etc. then the best sections for the 16s and 18s are -

1. So. Cal - 18 pts
2. Mid West - 13 pts
3. Florida - 10 pts
4. Southern - 9 pts
5. Texas - 6 pts
6. Eastern - 3 pts
7. No. Cal - 1 pt

The problem with this analysis is that it is only good for the actual year you are in.
Some years, there is more depth in one section with a clumping of boys.
Unfortunately, you can't do this, but it would be interesting if you could go back the past two years or even five years.......

[ga tennis]

Southern,southern Cali,and Florida The Three Best!!!

[BHiC]

Originally Posted by tennis5

The problem with this analysis is that it is only good for the actual year you are in.
Some years, there is more depth in one section with a clumping of boys.
Unfortunately, you can't do this, but it would be interesting if you could go back the past two years or even five years.......

I agree that this is very limited, I just didn't have the time or desire to go back in older rankings. I don't see any reason why I couldn't be able to go back and analyze the last 5 years - I will if I get some free time.

[hhollines]

"Southern,southern Cali,and Florida The Three Best!!!"

So the reality is, for the rest of us is, we will have to move to SoCal, FL, or TX to have the chance of becoming a top player. I don't want to believe that but the data is unbiased and that's what it says . . . the data is the data.

We are in Intermountain and it's a major challenge to find court time in the cold weather months and we just lose ground and over the years, it becomes a major issue . . . the delta gets bigger and bigger from the 12s to 14s to 16s to 18s. I guess it's Malcolm Gladwell's social environment argument. You need to be in a good social environment and otherwise it's a major challenge. We become big fish in a small pond.

It's a major issue for us parents in weaker sections. Why spend $ when the data is overwhelming? Lots of other sports requiring less $ with the same benefits. Or, and I would fight this in the past, the response is "move to CA or FL," if you want to have a chance at play top level tennis.

Maybe that's just the reality. Other thoughts?

[andfor]

^^^I'd add in some sections like the Southern's you almost don't have to leave the section to get top competition. At the same time can become a very good player. To do the same in many weaker sections my guess to get to an equivalent level you'd have to at least play two to four regional nationals per year. Maybe more.

To become one of the top players (top 50) I would think the average player with a lot of desire and the resources would need to move or at the least spend some extended time training in more competitive environments.

[Alohajrtennis]

Originally Posted by hhollines

"Southern,southern Cali,and Florida The Three Best!!!"

So the reality is, for the rest of us is, we will have to move to SoCal, FL, or TX to have the chance of becoming a top player. I don't want to believe that but the data is unbiased and that's what it says . . . the data is the data.

We are in Intermountain and it's a major challenge to find court time in the cold weather months and we just lose ground and over the years, it becomes a major issue . . . the delta gets bigger and bigger from the 12s to 14s to 16s to 18s. I guess it's Malcolm Gladwell's social environment argument. You need to be in a good social environment and otherwise it's a major challenge. We become big fish in a small pond.

It's a major issue for us parents in weaker sections. Why spend $ when the data is overwhelming? Lots of other sports requiring less $ with the same benefits. Or, and I would fight this in the past, the response is "move to CA or FL," if you want to have a chance at play top level tennis.

Maybe that's just the reality. Other thoughts?

Well, under the new changes all the really good players from your section who are now only playing national and regionals are going to be forced to play back in the section, so the level of play at sectional events will increase. The changes are also going to make tennis a lot less expensive by reducing the cost of traveling becuase now instead of flying to a regional or national events in Colorado Springs or Sacramento they only have to fly to sectionals in Las Vegas or Denver. That will save a soooo much money they will be able to afford the indoor courts now, so they will give up basketball and football for tennis, and you will again have better competition. And I am sure the Intermountian section is working on creating a bunch of really great new sectional events to replace the regional and national opens and you won't have to worry about playing good kids from other sections becuase they are not allowed to play in them. And you wont have to miss school to go play kids in other sections becuase all those tournaments are closed too so you are not allowed to play in those either.

[/sarcasm]

[tennis5]

Originally Posted by hhollines

"Southern,southern Cali,and Florida The Three Best!!!"

So the reality is, for the rest of us is, we will have to move to SoCal, FL, or TX to have the chance of becoming a top player. I don't want to believe that but the data is unbiased and that's what it says . . . the data is the data.

We are in Intermountain and it's a major challenge to find court time in the cold weather months and we just lose ground and over the years, it becomes a major issue . . . the delta gets bigger and bigger from the 12s to 14s to 16s to 18s. I guess it's Malcolm Gladwell's social environment argument. You need to be in a good social environment and otherwise it's a major challenge. We become big fish in a small pond.

It's a major issue for us parents in weaker sections. Why spend $ when the data is overwhelming? Lots of other sports requiring less $ with the same benefits. Or, and I would fight this in the past, the response is "move to CA or FL," if you want to have a chance at play top level tennis.

Maybe that's just the reality. Other thoughts?

I disagree with uprooting a family for tennis or sending a kid to an academy.
Uprooting a family for just tennis usually creates a pretty dysfunctional family life
and having a teenager unsupervised at an academy might lead to some good tennis, but not much else.
Unless, your plan is to have your junior go pro.

Where there is a will, there is a way.

Have your junior be a hitter for other kid's lessons.
He/she gets the court time and still can work on their hitting.

Let folks know at your club that your junior will fill in for a missing adult doubles partner.
Again, more court time.

[hhollines]

"I disagree with uprooting a family for tennis or sending a kid to an academy.
Uprooting a family for just tennis usually creates a pretty dysfunctional family life and having a teenager unsupervised at an academy might lead to some good tennis, but not much else. Unless, your plan is to have your junior go pro."

You can't really make that statement. I personally don't agree with the academy approach or home schooling but I've seen it work and I've seen it not work. That's a personal family decision. However, if you can move, keep your family and a job allows you to relocate, that's a decision I have available from time to time given my profession . . .

"Where there is a will, there is a way."

I don't disagree but the odds are stacked more against folks in cold weather states/weaker sections and the data support that . . . it's just reality but it doesn't mean it can't be done. We're certainly trying and all the things you outlined are good and I agree (we certainly do them).

[Pro_Tour_630]

given the circumstances ( weather, indoor fees etc..) the strongest section is NE

[BHiC]

Originally Posted by andfor

^^^I'd add in some sections like the Southern's you almost don't have to leave the section to get top competition. At the same time can become a very good player. To do the same in many weaker sections my guess to get to an equivalent level you'd have to at least play two to four regional nationals per year. Maybe more.

To become one of the top players (top 50) I would think the average player with a lot of desire and the resources would need to move or at the least spend some extended time training in more competitive environments.

I agree, the southern section in particular is so large, that there has to be some good players in it! An interesting fact, for overall USTA membership (adult and jr), the Southern section has over twice as many people as the next largest section. And I believe 3 times as many people than everyone except the Mid West

[High Rustler]

So I've always heard #1 and #2 Florida & socal without much argument. #3 southern vs. texas? I've heard texas is way more competitive (I'm metro ATL).

What say the masses?

[andfor]

Originally Posted by High Rustler

So I've always heard #1 and #2 Florida & socal without much argument. #3 southern vs. texas? I've heard texas is way more competitive (I'm metro ATL).

What say the masses?

Texas is good but not as strong as the Southern. I'd like to see some stats proving otherwise but doubt they exist. Georgia has a lot to do with buoying the high competitive levels in the Southern Section.

[ga tennis]

Originally Posted by andfor

Texas is good but not as strong as the Southern. I'd like to see some stats proving otherwise but doubt they exist. Georgia has a lot to do with buoying the high competitive levels in the Southern Section.

Georgia should be its own section.