Calling footfaults is important

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by Timbo's hopeless slice

Has anyone ever played serious tennis with someone that footfaults?

Originally Posted by spot

I'd say that easily 60% of recreational players consistently footfault so I'd say that is a resounding yes.

He said "SERIOUS" tennis.

[Timbo's hopeless slice]

why not just learn to serve properly? are you really that inept?

a stable platform will give you a more consistent serve anyway.

this just baffles me on so many levels!

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by Bartelby

You are deluding yourself if you think that from that distance and that angle you can officiate foot faults end you're cheating because the rules don't allow you to officiate them.

....end of story.

End of story for you but not for me, you haven't named the "national association" that says it "cheating" to call foot faults, name it.

[Bartelby]

You don't have the right to officiate foot faults as a receiver in Australia, from what I've read, and you only have a highly qualified right to do so as a last resort in the US.

So both associations know that you'll have problem players who think they have the right to do anything for a win by decreeing themselves de facto officials.

So most of what has gone on in this thread about calling foot faults, including your statements, is just plain illegal according to the codes of two national associations.

So maybe you can find some associations which give an unqualified right for the receiver to call a foot fault?

Originally Posted by tennis tom

End of story for you but not for me, you haven't named the "national association" that says it "cheating" to call foot faults, name it.

[Bartelby]

Maybe you can see something if you don't intend to hit the ball back, but the reality is that you're not in the correct position to make such a technical judgement.

Originally Posted by yourmailman

On the idea that you cannot see a foot fault from 76 or 78 feet away ...

You can clearly see a flagrant foot fault from behind the baseline, no problem. I don't think you have to have great eyesight to do it, either. A flagrant FF is easily seen from that distance. In fact my camera was set up against the back fence, in the corner, some 90 feet away, and the FF was definitely visible.

I agree that you probably cannot see someone's toe touching the baseline, but when the majority, or all of their foot is inside the baseline before they strike the ball, you can absolutely see that from the other end of the court.

[winstonplum]

Repeat foot-faulters are morons. The worst of the worst. I'm actually quite embarrassed for them. LEARN THE EFFING RULES OF TENNIS. When I played basketball and had a free-throw, did I stand on the free-throw line? When I played baseball, did I pitch from three feet in front of the mound? Absolutely horrible. I can understand if you are just learning how to play tennis and are a 2.0 hack playing with the balls you use to play fetch with Skippy, but once you start playing USTA matches, club tournaments, or even competitive matches with your friends, lean the EFFING rules of the game.

So I tell someone they're foot-faulting. Okay. Cool. We're good. Now if you can't correct stepping a foot into the court, move back one and half feet and start your service motion. Several pros can do it. It's good enough for David Ferrer. But no. You just keep doing the same thing. Or morons that step over the center hash. It's all just embarrassing and quite shameful. I just ignore it now and realize I'm playing with a hack that is clueless and the outcome of this match means nothing; at least I'm getting some good cardio in if they can keep the ball in play.

[winstonplum]

For the record, I'm not talking about people whose toes creep up and touch the line--of course I can't see that and would never call that, especially in a rec game. I'm talking about the person who steps flush on the line with half of his or her foot in the court or has his or her whole foot in the court. You don't need x-ray vision to see that, just functioning eyeballs.

[Oski10s]

Originally Posted by Bartelby

So both associations know that you'll have problem players who think they have the right to do anything for a win by decreeing themselves de facto officials.

I'm sorry, but we are all "de facto officials" because we call balls in or out of the service box during the serve (as well as lines during play). It is this same right as the serve receiver to call a foot fault.

Foot fault is a service fault, it's very clear in the rule book. Maybe you should read it?

[sureshs]

A guy actually changed his serve stance to avoid FFs. See his before and after videos here:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...=1#post7049813


This is what I call a conscientious guy. Instead of adamantly insisting that FFs are OK, he actually does something about it.

[cork_screw]

Foot faulting isn't such a big deal. There's really not much of an advantage to having your toe skim the line.

I understand it's a rule, but if they broke the rule and were benefiting marginally from it, I would call them out on it. But it's really nominal to null.

I've had people foot fault on me, and I just let them have it. I still beat their asss.

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by cork_screw

Foot faulting isn't such a big deal. There's really not much of an advantage to having your toe skim the line.

If stepping on or over the baseline when serving is not a big deal, then maybe it's not gonna' be a big deal to you when I call your ball, that hit the line, OUT! It's no big deal after all, it's only an inch or two, how much can an inch or two matter to the outcome--after all, when I call every one of your liners out, you're still going to kick my *** anyway, aren't you? It's so hard for me to see those lines from so far away, it's just a blur, I think people who don't like it when I call their maybe liners out, are just ***-hats, they are anal, why don't they just play horseshoes instead?

[tamdoankc]

Finally went to a tourney that called foot faults. There were so many double faults. Some players even got mad but rules are rules. It was hilarious!

[Bartelby]

There are rules for officiated games and rules for non-officiated games.

And receivers have either no right or a right in the very final instance to call a foot fault and only when it's flagrant.

Its called a rule book and I quoted from it and it says what I said it says.

Originally Posted by Oski10s

I'm sorry, but we are all "de facto officials" because we call balls in or out of the service box during the serve (as well as lines during play). It is this same right as the serve receiver to call a foot fault.

Foot fault is a service fault, it's very clear in the rule book. Maybe you should read it?

[Bartelby]

Exactly, I have only once seen anyone foot faulting where advantage may have been possible, so most people complaining about foot faults are simply being obnoxious.

Every ATP match is officiated over by scores of umpires, linesmen, ball boys, and the like so they can afford to be meticulous about every line.

Foot faulting is due to a technical fault with service and not due to hitting a ball out so these are two very separate issues.

I've lost zero points playing against people foot faulting, but many points playing against people deliberately calling lines in their favour.

Originally Posted by cork_screw

Foot faulting isn't such a big deal. There's really not much of an advantage to having your toe skim the line.

I understand it's a rule, but if they broke the rule and were benefiting marginally from it, I would call them out on it. But it's really nominal to null.

I've had people foot fault on me, and I just let them have it. I still beat their asss.

[tennis_ocd]

Originally Posted by Bartelby

Exactly, I have only once seen anyone foot faulting where advantage may have been possible, so most people complaining about foot faults are simply being obnoxious.

Most are retentive. Ironically, they likely to do infinitely more damage to their own return game watching and worrying over someone's heel crossing an imaginary center line or back foot sliding up over the line than any possible advantage gained by the server.

If a guy is routinely ff'ing, 99 out of 100 he doesn't have a serve worth concern. And I'm not convinced calling it to "get into his head" isn't worse gamesmanship than the fault itself.

[tennis tom]

Yesterday for grins, I called foot-faults on a dub opponent during warm-up. I wouldn't have bothered if it weren't for this thread and that fact that this club player annoyed from the start.

We had warmed up, I served first, FBI, (which means first ball in), as is the "general" convention at this club. Next up to serve is Mr. Annoying. He announces he wants warm-up serves--I groan and get some water. PEOPLE! real players warm up their serves during the warm-up--that's why it's called a WARM-UP! At the rec or club level, you mutually decide to do one or the other, everyone either hits warm-up serves or FBI.

Then, Mr. Annoying becomes Mr. Clueless also wanting FBI--of course. It's rude and ridiculous to make three people wait around, while Mr. Annoying/Clueless solitarily hits his practice serves, which he should have opted to do during the "warm-up".

So, moral of the story--he thanks me for telling him that he was foot-faulting, that he's not one of those players who takes it personally but appreciates the opportunity to correct it.

Contrary to Barleby's attempt at revisionism of the rules and history of tennis, if someone during a rec match calls you for ff'ing you should be appreciative that they have the balls to do it and thank them. If you ever have any aspirations for tournament competition ff'ing will come back to bite you and really get into your head then--and those you play with will think more highly of you maybe buying your used car or a drink at the bar.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by cork_screw

Foot faulting isn't such a big deal. There's really not much of an advantage to having your toe skim the line.

Read my first post in this thread. It is not about the slight advantage.

[Bartelby]

You can do whatever you want amongst consenting adults, but the reality is that the rule is that the receiver has no right to call foot faults in non-officiated games.

Originally Posted by tennis tom

Yesterday for grins, I called foot-faults on a dub opponent during warm-up. I wouldn't have bothered if it weren't for this thread and that fact that this club player annoyed from the start.

We had warmed up, I served first, FBI, (which means first ball in), as is the "general" convention at this club. Next up to serve is Mr. Annoying. He announces he wants warm-up serves--I groan and get some water. PEOPLE! real players warm up their serves during the warm-up--that's why it's called a WARM-UP! At the rec or club level, you mutually decide to do one or the other, everyone either hits warm-up serves or FBI.

Then, Mr. Annoying becomes Mr. Clueless also wanting FBI--of course. It's rude and ridiculous to make three people wait around, while Mr. Annoying/Clueless solitarily hits his practice serves, which he should have opted to do during the "warm-up".

So, moral of the story--he thanks me for telling him that he was foot-faulting, that he's not one of those players who takes it personally but appreciates the opportunity to correct it.

Contrary to Barleby's attempt at revisionism of the rules and history of tennis, if someone during a rec match calls you for ff'ing you should be appreciative that they have the balls to do it and thank them. If you ever have any aspirations for tournament competition ff'ing will come back to bite you and really get into your head then--and those you play with will think more highly of you maybe buying your used car or a drink at the bar.

[Bartelby]

Your first post was about using foot faults not as a way of penalizing a player for getting an unfair advantage, but as a psychological technique to unnerve his service performance and hence gain a significant advantage.

I can't see that's a particularly 'fair' way to win, and it's another good reason why you're not allowed to call foot faults in non-officiated games.

Originally Posted by sureshs

Read my first post in this thread. It is not about the slight advantage.

[Bartelby]

Its been my experience that the people who cheat at line calls are usually the same people who get self-righteous about all sorts of rules when they're losing.

They're losers who worry about rules they never follow because they want to win no matter how, rather than play fair and win.