Single handed backhand for juniors...

[TheCanadian]

The answer is multilevel: only superior coaches know how to teach a good 1HB. It's easier to learn a 2HB at a young age. It takes longer to develop a 1HB; ergo, results will come later and many know-nothing parents don't want to wait.

The vast majority of tennis coaches don't know what to f... they're doing as it is and you expect them to teach a sophisticated shot like a 1HB? Come on! Why not a heavy American twist on the ad side while you're at it. What's the percentage of coaches who could teach that one?

[julian]

Originally Posted by Ash_Smith

I am back!



Side spin - not sure! Maybe JY has studied? My hunch would be single has greater, but the dominance of the hands in the 2 hander may effect this (top hand dominance may increase the amount of side spin???)

2. Elements yes, but I like a greater amount of extension from the top hand on my ideal 2 hander, so that probably doesn't map across exactly like the typical double bend ATP forehand. However, GRF, hip rotation, drive position etc can all be practiced as a lefty forehand and incorporated into a righties 2 hander without question.

I think the women's 2 handers are generally more like the forehand as they tend to maintain the double bend structure in both arms for the duration of the shot so for a right hander it is like a lefty forehand.

Ash,

per #2 above for your ideal 2 hander

Is a face of a racket tilted/closed slightly at a contact?
If yes how much (ballpark)?

See for example blog #7 Page 13 of blog.tennisspeed.com
(the picture is drawn for a orehand but the question remains valid)

The title of the blog is
"A Roadmap to a Hall-of-Fame Forehand - Part 7: FHT-3 - The Past Lives On (But Only Barely) "
regards,
Julian

[julian]

Originally Posted by boramiNYC

nice study but mostly easily predictable findings I think. one question. "delayed the horizontal acceleration of the racquet towards the ball" could you explain?

I do NOT have the full text of the paper.
The interpretation below is based PARTIALLY on a book by Knudson.

There are two points here-
one trivial and one more complex/implicit

The first one:
The peak of the horizontal acceleration of the racquet towards the ball is observed to be for the double hander 0.08 s prior to impact.

The second one
ssc for forearm/hand/shoulder is PROBABLY between 20-40 miliseconds before the contact or at LEAST it would be optimal to have it this way.

It would be the "best" to have all three (the peak of horizontal acceleration,contact point and ssc) as closed as possible to each other timewise.
In the case of onehander they will be a bit more APART because the peak of acceleration is EARLIER
so the peak of acceleration for double hander is "delayed" in this sense

PS #1
The important part is that a racket does NOT accelerate through the contact.
It was a bone of contention with Oscar in one of famous/deleted/to remain unnamed threads (in
the case of forehand,to be specific).
Regards,
Julian

[5263]

Originally Posted by TheCanadian

The answer is multilevel: only superior coaches know how to teach a good 1HB. It's easier to learn a 1HB at a young age.

I guess you meant to say easier to learn the 2 hander at young age?

[boramiNYC]

ok got it, thanks.

[TheCanadian]

Originally Posted by 5263

I guess you meant to say easier to learn the 2 hander at young age?

Yes, sorry.

[5263]

I guess Ash didn't feel being able to be aggressive with big 1st serves to the
Bh was that important an issue?

[Ash_Smith]

^^^don't guess anything

[5263]

Originally Posted by Ash_Smith

^^^don't guess anything

haha, yes, you're are right, but
better than assuming

[julian]

Please see Page 2 of
http://www.scribd.com/doc/46802858/B...Ground-Strokes

[julian]

--->quote
jim,

some great footage to review this wrist and arm movement is right in our pro strokes library. take a look at federer's backhand from the stationary back view frame by frame as well as haas, robredo and others. the wrist and forearm will pronate as one reaches the bottom of the downswing (some pronate sooner than others on the one hander), and then supination occurs as one begins the forward movement towards impact with an extended arm, and finally you will see federer many times as well as others like philoppoussis, kuerten etc. end with their wrist in a slight radial deviated position when hitting heavier topspin.
----->
http://www.virtualtennisacademy.com/...558fufne4h1pi3

[julian]

http://www.virtualtennisacademy.com/...sd8cro5b4ae2c6

[MasturB]

I'll be able to answer this question in about a year or two.

I'm coaching two sisters now aged 9 and 11. Been working with them for about a year now.

Teaching the nine year old a two hander, I started the 11 year old with a two-hander, but switched her over to a one-hander and its just more natural to her.

I'm a one-hander myself, so it will be easy for me to teach her. Almost got teary eyed last week when I was running her side to side on up-the-line drills. Her 1HBH follow through and knee bend on the run... is just outrageous.

I taught myself a one-hander, and I must have that spine imbalance because whenever I try to hit a two-hander, I can't seem to get forward momentum, everything is just leaning back when I hit it. lol


LONG LIVE THE 1 HANDED BACKHAND.

[Netspirit]

Originally Posted by MasturB

I taught myself a one-hander, and I must have that spine imbalance because whenever I try to hit a two-hander, I can't seem to get forward momentum, everything is just leaning back when I hit it. lol


LONG LIVE THE 1 HANDED BACKHAND.

I think I know why you have that spine imbalance.

[slice bh compliment]

Spine imbalance, hmmm. I bet he has differently sized forearms, too. Because of the onehander. He heh heh.
Hey nowww, easy. Just because the man's name is MasturB.

His last name is probably Bates. And he's having a little pun wid it.

[Relinquis]

As a one-handed backhander i find this a very interesting discussion.

If we look at empirical evidence, is the one-handed backhand really worse?

5 of the current top 20 in the world have them (Federer, Gasquet, Almagro, Warwinka, Kohlschreiber; 6 if you make it the top 21 and include Haas); they are successful on a variety of surfaces and with different overall styles of play. I don't know if 25% of the players in their generation(s) were trained on that stroke.

Anyway, I'm just glad that people are even discussing the one-hander and hopefully there will be a better understanding of the stroke and how to use and teach it properly. We can use all the resources we can get!

[10isfreak]

Originally Posted by rkelley

So this data says that a 1hbh and a 2hbh produce the same racquet speed 0.005 s before impact. OK. Good data point.

This study actually reveals that both backhand are rather comparable in terms of hitting potential and that much of the tennis doctrines that we face out there do not -- once again -- match reality.

[10isfreak]

Originally Posted by Relinquis

As a one-handed backhander i find this a very interesting discussion.

If we look at empirical evidence, is the one-handed backhand really worse?

5 of the current top 20 in the world have them (Federer, Gasquet, Almagro, Warwinka, Kohlschreiber; 6 if you make it the top 21 and include Haas); they are successful on a variety of surfaces and with different overall styles of play. I don't know if 25% of the players in their generation(s) were trained on that stroke.

Anyway, I'm just glad that people are even discussing the one-hander and hopefully there will be a better understanding of the stroke and how to use and teach it properly. We can use all the resources we can get!

The funny thing about this is that many Europeans seem to privilege the one handed backhand when they are much likelier than their American counterparts to play on red clay where bounces are peculiarly high and, rallies, likely to last.

I would like to find a single convincing argument, based upon facts, which does support the view that two handed backhands really outperform their single handed equivalent... So far, I have seen none, although I did buy into it myself over some period of time.

Now, the smoke screen has vanished and it seems like it's also an other belief which has no empirical relevance.

[luvforty]

arguably the biggest disadvantage for 1hbh is time.... time required to prepare.... time you can afford on the european clay.. you can stand back and take a big cut.

time you cannot afford on hard courts.

[LeeD]

No instant gratification, won't work.