Homeschool for competitive tennis player in a non academy environment

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by Chemist

My son also took Honor Chem last year. His school allows him to double up sciences, AP Chem and AP Phys this year, because he took BYU's US History on-line in the summer. We paid a few hundreds for this course. I never asked if a home schooled kid is allowed to take labs in a regular school - I would think its likely.

There is some science slot funding per student issue here. But I think the real reason is that they have opened up a brand new engineering building at the school, complete with solar panels, fuel cells, robots, breadboards, 3D printers and lathes. So they forced him to take "Principles of Engineering" this year. Next year it will be "Digital Electronics" or "Engineering Design." This is part of some national push to get kids interested in engineering. I look at them as additional Physics courses with lots of labs (to add to the Advanced Physics he already took).

In any case, he wanted two APs at the end of his junior year and he has gotten them: AP Bio and AP Computer Science. Then AP Phy, AP Calc and AP Stats in the senior year, and before that AP Chem in the private school to build on his Chem Hons.

[tennis5]

Originally Posted by ac10splyr

Thank you for the answer and example, I don't have a kid that plays or is homeschooled, just know of one and was interested. And buly the way, he does have plenty of time for school, 4 hours of tennis/conditioning allows for plenty of time for studies which should still come first!
And he is only 11 and in the 6th grade I believe, chance to excellerate his learning and progress in tennis

Sorry, no one could really answer this question.

The only thought that did pop into my head was this sounds so lonely if there are no kids around in an academy......

[Chemist]

Originally Posted by sureshs

There is some science slot funding per student issue here. But I think the real reason is that they have opened up a brand new engineering building at the school, complete with solar panels, fuel cells, robots, breadboards, 3D printers and lathes. So they forced him to take "Principles of Engineering" this year. Next year it will be "Digital Electronics" or "Engineering Design." This is part of some national push to get kids interested in engineering. I look at them as additional Physics courses with lots of labs (to add to the Advanced Physics he already took).

In any case, he wanted two APs at the end of his junior year and he has gotten them: AP Bio and AP Computer Science. Then AP Phy, AP Calc and AP Stats in the senior year, and before that AP Chem in the private school to build on his Chem Hons.

Sounds like a great plan for your son. Nice to know another tennis kid who also excels academically.

[Chemist]

Originally Posted by ac10splyr

And I would say is he equivalent to a 4.0-4.5 at the club by the way

I am really impressed that your 11 yr boy competes well against 4.0-4.5 guys. He will kick their butt in a year or two. Good luck with his home schooling and tennis training!

[TennisNinja]

Originally Posted by sureshs

Math can be managed. It is the science courses with labs (regular and AP) which are very difficult/impossible to duplicate at home. For the regular courses, I guess the labs can be done with one of the home-schooling science kits. But for an AP science course, teacher's guidance in the lab becomes very important and the lab itself is subject to College Board guidelines for it to be accredited.

My son is doing AP Biology this year and the content and labs are way, way above what I studied a generation ago. I have no clue what is going on.

Not really. Science classes today are becoming more and more of a joke. The amount of "real" science done in classes nowadays might shock some people. Many times in class we had virtual "labs" that amounted to little more than pressing buttons on a screen and watching the computer do the processing. I went to a school that had the IB program instead of AP but my friends in the neighboring school (same district) reported similar experiences.

Clearly there are still moments that cannot be replicated at home, but the gap is closing every day.

Originally Posted by chalkflewup

Let's talk real world. Only a fraction of the entire student population possesses the academic credentials necessary to get into an Ivy League school anyway. Nevertheless, I know of an Ivy League school that just signed and accepted a home schooled student. And, there are home schooled kids playing tennis at West Point - today.

An institute of higher learning will not turn an eagle away if the test scores are there and if the applicant has outstanding leadership qualities (a big forehand helps too).

Many kids devote pretty much their entire time to tennis though. How are you going to be involved in activities like DECA , JSA, etc.? How are they going to pursue leadership positions not through a school that do not lead to a serious time commitment? I'm not talking about just 1 position here. You see kids with excellent academic credentials and leaderships in multiple clubs, organizations, and sports teams get rejected from the top universities in the nation.

You have to understand that if you're applying to any of the elite colleges in the nation, for every person that is accepted, numerous others with the same or similar academic qualifications are rejected. It is a crapshoot at that level.

Think about this. If the admissions officer has to choose between 2 tennis players with similar academic abilities but one is homeschooled, who do you think they will probably choose? The kid who demonstrates that not only is he involved with the community, but also demonstrates that he is a leader. I'm not saying it can't be done in a homeschool situation, just much much harder.

Originally Posted by TCF

A few questions for that coach:

1. Do they also "buy" the SAT scores and other standardized test scores?

2. Do they fake the internships with companies?

3. Do they get a stunt double to come to the personal interviews for them?

4. And lastly.....has he talked to the Harvard's admissions department, as they say the opposite of what he said?

"Grace S. Cheng, a Harvard Admissions Officer who oversees homeschool applications, estimates that her office now receives between 75 and 150 homeschooled applicants each year—a increase from the 1989 estimates of 5 to 10 homeschooled applicants per year.

Cheng says homeschoolers are neither at an advantage nor disadvantage when applying. “Yes, homeschoolers are usually ranked one out of one,” she says with a laugh. “But we have so many valedictorians in the pool that it’s not [quite] delineated out for us. We treat homeschool applicants no differently from other applicants. There are no separate application requirements.”

Harvard works to fill its classes with students from a variety of different backgrounds, and it appears these homeschoolers are no exception."

1. You seem to minimize the significance of a GPA. Standardized tests are a great way of gauging a student's intelligence and problem solving abilities, but they do not reveal things a GPA does. GPA's require more than just filling in bubbles for a few hours. A student's GPA reveals if they can consistently produce high quality work and that they have the ability to make deadlines and finish assignments. Take 2 students with identical credentials, 3.95 GPA and 2250 SAT. One of them is homeschooled, however. Given the nature of homeschooling, it is probably the safer bet to go with the student that went to a regular school. The homeschooler would need to provide additional information to support their ability to perform at a high level.

I know this is anecdotal evidence, but I know a number of people with GPA's in the low 3 range that did fantastic on standardized tests. How many people do I know with stellar GPA's but very average standardized test scores? None.

2. I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure very few kids have the experience and qualifications to land a legitimate internship that actually means something before their senior year begins. Honestly, who wants to hire a high school sophomore or junior in the summer when there are tons of highly qualified college sophomores and juniors also looking for internships? Unless you are a genius already or have great connections, it's not happening.

3. Most colleges do not require personal interviews. Even if they do, many of them are alumni interviews, not actual meetings with someone on the admissions board.

4. "Mr. Brenzel of Yale: We see only a few homeschooled applicants, and we do occasionally admit a homeschooled student. Evaluation is usually difficult, however. It helps if the applicant has taken some college level courses, and we can get evaluations from those teachers. We are not keen on homeschooled students where the only evaluations come from parents and the only other information available consists of test scores."
You mentioned Harvard, but its rival Yale seems to have a different take.

[tennisforlife77]

You need to differentiate here between traditional home schooling in which the parent sets and manages the program and the newer online schools like Laurel Springs which is a fully accredited private school with a distance learning option. Laurel Springs is the school i am familiar with and i can't speak to other programs but colleges do not consider LS students to be home schooled. The lab packages for the advanced science courses are quite detailed. LS graduates are attending pretty much all the IVY schools - don't know if they are tennis players or not.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by Chemist

Sounds like a great plan for your son. Nice to know another tennis kid who also excels academically.

He does not play tennis! I do.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by TennisNinja

Not really. Science classes today are becoming more and more of a joke. The amount of "real" science done in classes nowadays might shock some people. Many times in class we had virtual "labs" that amounted to little more than pressing buttons on a screen and watching the computer do the processing. I went to a school that had the IB program instead of AP but my friends in the neighboring school (same district) reported similar experiences.

Clearly there are still moments that cannot be replicated at home, but the gap is closing every day.

The labs my son has done right from the simple ones in elementary and middle school to the more advanced ones today have all been real labs. The simulations have only been during the theory classes.

[TCF]

=============================

[barringer97]

Stanford had more kids apply with perfect scores on their SAT's then they have students. That's how crazy it has become.

Tennis is our only way in.

[coaching32yrs]

When I was in business I loved competing against the Harvard and Yale grads. They weren't "hungry". I usually won. Those coming from a small state college, or urban Catholic college- I was in a dogfight- and took a lot of lumps.

[Misterbill]

Originally Posted by barringer97

Stanford had more kids apply with perfect scores on their SAT's then they have students. That's how crazy it has become.

Tennis is our only way in.

Can you run those probabilities by us again?

Men's and women's tennis each take 2 or 3 a year, is the understanding I have

[kme5150]

This is a pretty good read.

"How my child went from home school to Harvard and yours can, too"

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/...yours-can-too/

By the way, our children weren't homeschooled but I don't believe there is only one way to get from point A to B.

[10istalent]

Here is an article which I posted a while back measuring the recruiting of ivies: home vs traditional schooling. My daughter has a good friend who is taking Laurel Springs and trains not at an academy. The mom complains that she cannot find enough tennis for the amount of money she is willing to spend each day.

[10istalent]

Sorry here is the article: http://longislandtennismagazine.com/...living-academy

[barringer97]

Originally Posted by Misterbill

Can you run those probabilities by us again?

Men's and women's tennis each take 2 or 3 a year, is the understanding I have

Admissions, not $. Schools like Stanford might not give you any scholarship money, but I'm guessing if my girl is top 20-50 in the US (with good grades), they will give her admission, but no scholarship money.

[hhollines]

"McEnroe grew up in an excellent tennis area with a prestigious after-school academy (Port Washington TA) nearby. He was also wealthy. It is easier for certain players to express what they feel is best when it was all at their disposal locally. Things are more complicated when you don't have top-notch training nearby or the proper funds to travel and train."

Not sure I follow. How does this differ from anyone else? Tennis is insanely expensive, for everyone. Sure, some have more money than others but I don't know many poor families that can afford the hourly costs for a coach, clinics, hitting groups and/or travel for tournaments.

As for the "excellent tennis area," I've been saying that for a long time. The better tennis environment you live in, the better your chances (back to Malcolm Gladwell's point). In fact, if you are in a weaker section, you likely spend more money constantly having to travel outside your state.

I'm not judging anyone regarding whether or not to home school, attend an academy or not, as it's a personal decision. However, for our family, we just think there's tremendous benefits to attending school and I have no illusions that my daughter is going to make a living at tennis (if it happens, god bless her) but our primary focus is always education and trying to equip our daughter with the tools to be a productive and happy member of society and I think the daily interaction at school (the good, the bad, and the ugly) is all part of the development skills required for the real world (again, just our perspective).

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by kme5150

This is a pretty good read.

"How my child went from home school to Harvard and yours can, too"

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/...yours-can-too/

By the way, our children weren't homeschooled but I don't believe there is only one way to get from point A to B.

The article says his other 3 children are being schooled by retired teachers who were probably part of the regular schooling system. Unfortunately, each parent searching for professional teachers who honed their skills in a regular school is a highly inefficient system, like every one hiring police officers for their own home. Also, it seems to me that the daughter who went to Harvard is unlikely to be a stay-at-home mom like her mom, so I don't understand the point here. Was the "life lesson" that the daughter should stay at home and home school her children? Shouldn't moms be empowering daughters to think beyond traditional roles? My mother was a stay at home mom and did school homework with me every day almost till the 7th grade, but that was because she came from a time when education for women was not valued - her sisters never finished school. She tried to become a teacher, but circumstances were not favorable. But she always encouraged the next generation of girls to go out and work.

There is also the practical matter of science labs, which are not to be underestimated. Again, I don't know what she is studying at Harvard, but the global competition in science and engineering is very deep. The foundations for it begin as early as the 8th grade. It is not just a matter of labs, but also the grasping of difficult concepts. My son's AP Bio book is a 1200 page college textbook, and I went nuts trying to read it. But he says his teacher guides them through the book and it becomes manageable when he then studies on his own. I could never teach him this subject.

The author also forgets how many special needs students and those from very difficult demographics have to be catered to by the public education system. Just pretending that they don't exist does not solve the problem.

[Misterbill]

Originally Posted by barringer97

Admissions, not $. Schools like Stanford might not give you any scholarship money, but I'm guessing if my girl is top 20-50 in the US (with good grades), they will give her admission, but no scholarship money.

Yes. Didn't know we were talking about top 20-50. I think top 20-50 girls could probably be admitted and walk-on wherever they want, if the academic stats are anywhere near the lowest 25th percentile of each respective school. Top 20-50 also would have a chance for a scholarship at Stanford.

You are a lock to be a Stanford parent.

[sureshs]

Being poor is also a great way to get into top schools with only reasonable grades.

It is the families in the middle between poor and rich that have limited choices.