There is hope to get better.

[Timbo's hopeless slice]

I would just like to add a note from my own experience.

Don't be afraid to change your technique.

About ten years ago I returned to tennis after quite a long break (I took up squash).

Anyway, I hit up an old friend (who is a high level coach)for a hit to see where I was at and he noticed straight away that pretty much every part of my game had survived intact except for..

my FH! (uh oh)

So, we analysed what was happening and found that ten years of squash had 'ruined' (more on this in a minute) my footwork on that side as one plays pretty much every squash FH with an 'open' stance. My classic FH didn't like open stance too much.

hmmm

So, long story short, instead of trying to 'correct' this, Matt (my friend) suggested we go with the foot work and rebuild my stroke around it. Voila! Modern FH here we come!

Anyway, I have been able to get back to a comparable level to when I quit, but with a much better FH that helps to compensate for my 46 year old legs not being as fast as they once were. (actually, I don't feel any slower, but common sense tells me I MUST be!)

So, you're never too old to improve, and it is never too late to adjust your technique.

(I do thank my lucky stars that I haven't had the physical issues of many of you guys, that must really suck)

[TomT]

Thanks NLBwell. Inspiring. I've also been using drop-feeding to develop better (or rather to help regain former) stroking technique. Not a substitute for actual hitting, but helpful, like wall hitting, if approached conscientiously.

Post some vids.

[NLBwell]

Originally Posted by Mick

In my opinion, it is easier for a player like NLBwell to improve since he was once an excellent player before the injuries and time off. Bad players who don't have coaches can't fix their forms and usually lack the dedication needed to advance to the next level. It's much tougher for them.

I think the critical part of your statement is "don't have coaches." If someone is coached by a good tennis pro and is very mindful of what they are doing and are willing to work very hard, they certainly can improve significantly in a year or so.
If you don't already know what is correct, without an outside view of what is wrong and, importantly, what to do to improve it, just practicing a lot will only get you so far.
I know a couple of people who were really dedicated, who worked closely with a good pro and moved up to 5.0 in only a couple of years. Yes, it is pretty rare.

Also, a lot of pros aren't that good.

[J011yroger]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrQ-wlMVuC0

J

[Sakkijarvi]

I am for drop-feeding and wouldn't sell it short unless you've tried it.

It was one of the main training methods I used to get back into the game after a layoff of about 20 years.

Good thing was being able to head out for a break from work, to the local courts, on my time. Dropped and hit countless forehands and backhands. Same thing with my serve. I hadn't joined a club at that point, and used the outdoor courts that were a) Less than 5 minutes from my work; b) Always empty during the day (as in completely empty so there was no distractions from training and no one to worry about while hitting hoppers of balls).

I credit drop-feeding with developing the consistent and strong serve that is my main weapon to this day. Also helped me work up my down the line forehand, also one of my weapons.

[Mick]

Originally Posted by NLBwell

I think the critical part of your statement is "don't have coaches." If someone is coached by a good tennis pro and is very mindful of what they are doing and are willing to work very hard, they certainly can improve significantly in a year or so.
If you don't already know what is correct, without an outside view of what is wrong and, importantly, what to do to improve it, just practicing a lot will only get you so far.
I know a couple of people who were really dedicated, who worked closely with a good pro and moved up to 5.0 in only a couple of years. Yes, it is pretty rare.

Also, a lot of pros aren't that good.

there's this kid (15, 16 yrs old, i think) that used to show up every Saturdays at the park where i play. He had a coach and the coach did a great job on fixing his forms, all of his shots looked good.

One day, his father asked my hitting partner and I if we would want to play doubles. We agreed and proceeded to triple bagel the father-son team. It turned out the kid could only handle the kinds of ball that his coach feed. If it was slower, faster, higher, lower, or beyond the ideal hitting zone, the boy couldn't handle it. The father, although he didn't have as good of a form as his son had, he could handle most of those balls.

The coach was pretty disappointed but the kid never played other players. he only practiced with his coach. Not sure what happened but he stopped showing up at the park.

[J011yroger]

Originally Posted by Sakkijarvi

I am for drop-feeding and wouldn't sell it short unless you've tried it.

It was one of the main training methods I used to get back into the game after a layoff of about 20 years.

Good thing was being able to head out for a break from work, to the local courts, on my time. Dropped and hit countless forehands and backhands. Same thing with my serve. I hadn't joined a club at that point, and used the outdoor courts that were a) Less than 5 minutes from my work; b) Always empty during the day (as in completely empty so there was no distractions from training and no one to worry about while hitting hoppers of balls).

I credit drop-feeding with developing the consistent and strong serve that is my main weapon to this day. Also helped me work up my down the line forehand, also one of my weapons.

Wasn't there some kind of story about how Djokovic used hand feeds to fix his forehand a few years back?

J

[Timbo's hopeless slice]

*edit, I was rsponding to Mick, but Jolly got in first..

ye. it's often not about 'form', eh?

I like to think I have pretty nice 'form', as long as I am in good position and have time to set up. People stop to watch us practice.
However, in a match, I believe the best part of my game is my ability to improvise, to 'make up' a shot that puts the ball where I want it even if I'm all out of shape. A lot of these shots are ugly! That return of serve that jams you up but you somehow manage to hit it into the into the corner from under your chin, the FH passing shot that was all wrist 'cos you weren't in position to play a lovely, 'pretty' shot, the last second slice BH hack down the line as you realise he's covered the CC so you just sort of stop the shot half way and push it.

Ugly tennis that works.

I like nothing more than playing my best shot with my best form, but it doesn't always work like that, and I see a lot of players that have been heavily coached who still try to keep their form while out of position.

A really good coach will (hopefully) allow for some improvisation during matchplay practice, even encourage and force it by putting their pupils in awkward places.

look at Federer (who else?), he's the prettiest player on the planet, but he will still hack a squash shot up the line if he has to...

[NLBwell]

Originally Posted by Mick

there's this kid (15, 16 yrs old, i think) that used to show up every Saturdays at the park where i play. He had a coach and the coach did a great job on fixing his forms, all of his shots looked good.

One day, his father asked my hitting partner and I if we would want to play doubles. We agreed and proceeded to triple bagel the father-son team. It turned out the kid could only handle the kinds of ball that his coach feed. If it was slower, faster, higher, lower, or beyond the ideal hitting zone, the boy couldn't handle it. The father, although he didn't have as good of a form as his son had, he could handle most of those balls.

The coach was pretty disappointed but the kid never played other players. he only practiced with his coach. Not sure what happened but he stopped showing up at the park.

I hope he got a new coach. He may have quit tennis thinking he wasted all of his time. I hope they didn't pay the coach any money. So many horror stories like this about bad coaches.

[floridatennisdude]

Originally Posted by NLBwell

I hope he got a new coach. He may have quit tennis thinking he wasted all of his time. I hope they didn't pay the coach any money. So many horror stories like this about bad coaches.

Sometimes coaches say "go practice and play some matches" and kids retreat to the couch and Xbox. Then the next week at the lesson, the kid still sucks.

Not saying that's what happened. Just offering an alt theory. Since you're so quick to fault the pro 100% and criticize the family for paying money.

Do you also expect a kid to learn algebra the first day they see it in class? Or do they make them go to a class 5 days a week, do homework, take tests an quizzes, maybe even get a tutor?

[NLBwell]

Even in a lesson, you would think the instructor would give the kid some high balls or low balls or balls he has to move for. To your example, he only taught the kid subtraction over and over again.

From the OP scenario, I actually figured the instructor was probably a friend or relative who knew how to play tennis but didn't know how to teach and probably wasn't paid. In which case, I applaud him for trying to help the kid out. However, if it was an outsider getting paid significant money, it certainly was a bad deal. (Even if the kid didn't practice, a good pro should have known the kid's abilities and not been "disappointed" that he lost so badly.)

[heninfan99]

Some people train by just competing and they do very well with that strategy. If you're not working through an injury it's another way to go.

[Mick]

Originally Posted by Timbo's hopeless slice

ye. it's often not about 'form', eh?

I like to think I have pretty nice 'form', as long as I am in good position and have time to set up. People stop to watch us practice.
However, in a match, I believe the best part of my game is my ability to improvise, to 'make up' a shot that puts the ball where I want it even if I'm all out of shape. A lot of these shots are ugly! That return of serve that jams you up but you somehow manage to hit it into the into the corner from under your chin, the FH passing shot that was all wrist 'cos you weren't in position to play a lovely, 'pretty' shot, the last second slice BH hack down the line as you realise he's covered the CC so you just sort of stop the shot half way and push it.

Ugly tennis that works.

I like nothing more than playing my best shot with my best form, but it doesn't always work like that, and I see a lot of players that have been heavily coached who still try to keep their form while out of position.

A really good coach will (hopefully) allow for some improvisation during matchplay practice, even encourage and force it by putting their pupils in awkward places.

look at Federer (who else?), he's the prettiest player on the planet, but he will still hack a squash shot up the line if he has to...

Timbo,
Your improvised strokes could never be this ugly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsQmY3td2rs

[Timbo's hopeless slice]

lol, ye, my point precisely

[skiracer55]

...because I've hit a bunch with NLBwell (although not last summer...sorry about that, NLB, I had a bunch of Bad Things come up last year, let's try again next summer...) and (a) I'm even older than he is and (b) I'm a witness...he is getting better, and so am I. We've both played a bunch, so it's kind of a mutual coaching situation where I'll see things that he does well, and other things that might go better, and he'll do the same for my game.

So after working on stuff for a while, we'll crank up and play some points, which definitely helps me, because NLB is a big guy with a huge serve, so I have to do the right thing, and do it sooner than later, otherwise I'm toast. Good story, NLB...let's reconvene next summer!

[NLBwell]

I'd love to hit with you next summer skiracer55. I hope the stars will align correctly.

[LuckyR]

No one is happier than I that this is a success story, but as others have pointed out it is easier to regain lost prowess than to stretch yourself beyond your previous maximum.

We've all seen guys around the courts who have terrible physicality but pristine strokes. You can take points if you put enough pace on a shot going away from them, but they likely can make that shot low enough percentage for you to hit, that they will compete (and win) a majority of the points.

[Buford T Justice]

Originally Posted by LuckyR

No one is happier than I that this is a success story, but as others have pointed out it is easier to regain lost prowess than to stretch yourself beyond your previous maximum.

Yes...as someone who took up tennis at age 35 (now 40), when I play guys who started at a very young age, its pretty obvious that, even though our technique and strokes may be similar, they have a higher tennis IQ and their muscle memory is more readily available even though I might have progressed at a fairly rapid pace as far as skill development. There is something about taking up, and becoming proficient at, a sport when young that lends ease to that ability staying "put" and coming back more easily.

I grew up playing hockey, didnt skate for 20 years (literally), put skates back on a few years ago and within a minute felt right back at home where everything just came automatically. Tennis will never be that way for me as the muscle memory was not "set" when at a younger more impressionable age.