"Got It!" Confusion

[floridatennisdude]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

Hmmm. I kind of thought that calling "Mine" or suchlike was good practice. It tells the partner that you are large and in charge and are going to hit a confident shot (remember, I'm not supposed to be looking at you). If I hear "Mine," then I know we have resolved the issue of who will play the ball and I can focus on other matters.

Also, the pro we use is a fan of calling "Mine" even if there's not much question that you are going to poach. The reason is psychological. He says you volley more confidently and aggressively when you have "claimed" the ball. I think there may be something to this. Still, I am way more likely to say "Switch" or "you" than "mine."

I agree, I'll call "mine" on a floater that I know I can crush. Gives me self assurance that my partner won't interrupt my stroke.

I'll also say "crush it" to my partner if I see a sitter coming his way.

On a lob that I am going to have to retreat on, I'll usually just say "Oh *****, help" and run like hel! to try to get it. If I hear my partner go for it, I'll probably just say "switch" if it is appropriate.

[dizzlmcwizzl]

This seems like a confusing question to me. Pretty much every time I play I know who the alpha dog is. Often it is me, but I play with a couple folks who take that role when we play.

Basically it seems to me that the better I have gotten it has become clearer to me who should take each ball ... and on the tweeners that either player could take, the alpha dog takes control.

Pretty much the only time I say something other than mine is when I chose to let a ball go that would have been a difficult poach for me. If this is a relatively easy ball for my partner at the baseline that would allow him to move forward I will say "come up". But other than that, it is pretty much always "Mine" or "ME".

[penpal]

Cindy, if your partner is a good player then I think more time playing together might be the simple "cure". This is assuming of course you haven't already been playing together for a long time

Working out these communication issues takes a little time. It's why teams who have played together for years often have an advantage - they've come to learn what their partner can and can't get, they know what their partner means when she says "got it", and they can read each other's body language and know when the other might be in trouble and need some help.

You can talk some things out and that will help a bit, but I'm not sure there's any substitute for time on court together.

[BHiC]

Originally Posted by waves2ya

Will Hamilton's Fuzzy Yellow Balls site is hosting a seminar series with Bryan Bros (if you haven't gotten all the emails...!) that featured 4 free videos over past 10 days (don't think they are up any longer)...

But the Bros. advocate that a main 'partnership' tenant is to agree which player will take all lobs (back up, come in) and which player will get out of way, and the swarm net for put away...

The vid's had really good tips - that being one of them.


They've extended enrollment; you can prolly check out vid's at:

www bryanbrosplaybook dot com

I agree with this. I really like using the staggered formation when I play doubles. With 2 people up at the net, person #1 is up very tight and is looking to put away balls. Person #2 is just inside the service line, and volleying back deep down center trying to set person #1 up. Person #2 covers all lobs - thus not leaving any room for doubt.

[waves2ya]

I'll say they were not advocates of the staggered approach (which I like too).

They were *very* capture the middle/move in; if lob goes, do this; if something else, that; otherwise 'cat & mouse' (psyche out the baseline returner/guy trapped back)...

Modern singles game has real component of waiting, picking off the inopportune volley-er and leads singles guy to like staggered; but dubs pace faster and you must capture the net/get first volley put-a ways/intimidate...

Another tip...? Net man splits and commits, basically fully guessing which way to go. Give him the alley until you are convinced he can hit the stoke...

Got to admit that works pretty well, too.

[spot]

How I do it is that we play with the person on the same side of the court in a more closing position and the cross court player who pinches the middle and covers more court. So in my mind if there is a questionable shot then I think the net player should take it if they can. So if I am the person on the same side of the court then I will always call either "me me me" or "you you you" if I decide not to take it. If I am the person cross court and my partner does not take it then I will take it as best as I can even if that means chasing the ball down at the baseline.

[Roforot]

There's different systems but it comes down to trust and communication. Some players have bad shoulders and would rather defer. Others don't move well. There's also those that feel their nerves.

In general, the player w/ sore shoulders or weak overheads can keep it in play but not put it away. It's more important for you then to call it if you want it. Sometimes as a team it's easy to end up out of position since he'll move over to the side giving you space to hit the overhead. But since you've moved over there's a good window for the opponents if your shot isn't well hit.

If your partner's mobility is limited, you can't close to the net as much are going to have to be ready to move. More than likely, you will have let the ball bounce when it crosses and hope to hit a deep lob. Since you're doing all the work, your partner needs to at least shuffle over. If he can't or forgets to do this or if your lobs are landing too short, then maybe he should stay in the baseline.

The nervous player is the hardest to deal with as at one time we are all nervous and have missed big juicy overheads. I try to be encouraging and sincere in my exhortations. But I think as the score becomes more criticial, you may treat them as the "weak overhead" partner and take more overheads from them... but this is hard on teammates/relationship. Perhaps he fears you don't trust him to take the shot? Perhaps he's glad you took it and if you missed he can blame you (and not himself?)

BTW, after playing w/ partners like these it feels amazingly good to play w/ someone who can put it away without the drama. Here you both have to agree on a system. As you play more, you'll get a feel for eachother's limitations and won't necessarily need your partner to call mine or yours. Initially though that communication is essential.

[Spokewench]

I hate to make gender based statements, but I will this time. Most women over the age of 40 do not cover a lob over their heads well. For some reason, women seem to have a harder time moving backward than men do. They get off balance and do not use their feet optimally.

What I have found is that the other partner has an easier angled approach to the overhead ball so this is how I deal with this.

If I see that the other team is lobbing, I start to move backwards, as I see the ball going towards my partner's side, I shift towards the tee, if they look good and it is short and is going to be an overhead, I shift back a bit.

If I see that my partner is off balance, and I can get to the ball, I call her off and take the ball on the bounce. If she decides to hit an overhead, I just shift back a step or two towards the tee and we are fine as long as the overhead is not completely botched.

[chatt_town]

Okay, when I'm playing doubles most of my partners and I operate with the notion that if we are both standing at the net then the forehand takes the middle...that is unless I'm on top of the net and have a putaway backhand volley between the two. The way I handle lobs is this. If the lob goes over my partner's head...I take off and yell I got it...If they yell they have it...I defer and quickly head back to the area I left. The thing is though when the second person yells they have it, they need to make sure they are doing something offensive like cracking an over head. There is nothing worse than having someone just lolly pop the ball back into their service box just to have someone come up and clean up with a clean forehand for a winner. That's just me.

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

I'm playing with a new partner, and we are are doing practices to improve our partnership. An issue keeps coming up, so maybe you guys can advise.

The background is that we both come to net a lot, and we are effective up there. Naturally, this causes our opponents to lob. They also tend to drive balls up the middle.

The good news is that middle balls do not go unplayed, and we are getting better with our overheads.

The bad news is that we are having problems with both of us trying to play the same ball.

An example: She is ad, I am deuce. Opponents lob her. She will say "Got it." I look over and see she is in trouble (falling backward, etc.). If I do nothing (play as though she will make the shot), it sometimes bounces unplayed behind her. If I shadow her by going close enough to make the shot if she does not, I am out of position and in her way. But if I say "Got it!" and call her off of it, well . . . that's not going to be easy for me either.

Another example: Ball comes up the middle while we are both around the service line or I am slightly in front. We both say "Got it!" at the same time. Because I said "Got it!", I am unwilling to yank my racket down. Huge racket clash, loss of point.

Another example: Ball goes over my head and I start lining up a challenging overhead. She says "Got it!" I say, "No, I've got it!" and then I botch the shot. Or I make the shot but she is out of position because she was preparing to run down the ball.

I'm very unsure about how we can avoid all the Keystone Cops stuff. I think we agree that we want to take lobs out of the air and avoid bouncing/running them down. I think we both understand who covers middle and who covers alley (although this can get a bit ragged in the middle of a long point).

It just seems that trying to have good communication habits and calling balls isn't preventing confusion.

[chatt_town]

I agree. My wife can crank a pretty mean overhead as long as it's closer toward the net. What I do in mixed is this. If the guy doesn't have this kick @$$ kick serve that's going to run me into the next court, I play the ad side...that way I tend to get most of the overheads. She is subject more to have to hit overheads when she is serving from the ad side of the court. If I see a man on the deuce side of the court the first thing we do is throw up 200 lobs over the woman's side. If she can't do anything with a lob that is right passed the service line...we will have a field day most of the time as the guy is busy running and hitting backhands from the back of the court while we are standing on top of the net waiting for the alley oop.lol Plus I like having my forehand in the middle of the court so I take anything sitting up in the middle of the court. It was great coming up through the ranks. We are at 8.5 now as a mixed team and we are winning but not as much as we did in 7.0...7.5 and 8.0. I have to get a stronger serve. We just lost in the semis of a tourney in Mobile. We had them right where we wanted and just could't close. Lost 6-4, 4-6, 6-4. We had the right game plan but just didn't execute quite enough. We put up about 600 lobs as neither of them could put an overhead away if we put it to the service line and when they just put it back in the court....I was cleaning it up. We lost a few key points here and there and it always came down to execution. We got what we wanted most of the time with this strategy.

Originally Posted by Spokewench

I hate to make gender based statements, but I will this time. Most women over the age of 40 do not cover a lob over their heads well. For some reason, women seem to have a harder time moving backward than men do. They get off balance and do not use their feet optimally.

What I have found is that the other partner has an easier angled approach to the overhead ball so this is how I deal with this.

If I see that the other team is lobbing, I start to move backwards, as I see the ball going towards my partner's side, I shift towards the tee, if they look good and it is short and is going to be an overhead, I shift back a bit.

If I see that my partner is off balance, and I can get to the ball, I call her off and take the ball on the bounce. If she decides to hit an overhead, I just shift back a step or two towards the tee and we are fine as long as the overhead is not completely botched.

[chatt_town]

I couldn't agree more. I've played with some alpha dogs and I manage to win because I don't get caught up in being the alpha dog. We both win or we both lose. I've litterally played matches where we don't even have to communicate other than I'm serving to the backhand or down the middle or whatever. I have a few where we don't even say that much. It's understood. when I'm not the alpha dog what I do is this. If I'm on the deuce side I tend to keep the ball in the alley right across from me and me and my partner are at the net. This insures that the alpha dog is going to get most of the balls as he's rolling with me towards the alley. He is all the way to the right of my service box and I'm in the alley. So this cuts down my responsibility. Many come off the court and get asked...why did you all play the stronger guy and they don't have an answer. The answer is simply they allowed us to dictate who was getting most of the balls. Doubles is so much fun.

Originally Posted by dizzlmcwizzl

This seems like a confusing question to me. Pretty much every time I play I know who the alpha dog is. Often it is me, but I play with a couple folks who take that role when we play.

Basically it seems to me that the better I have gotten it has become clearer to me who should take each ball ... and on the tweeners that either player could take, the alpha dog takes control.

Pretty much the only time I say something other than mine is when I chose to let a ball go that would have been a difficult poach for me. If this is a relatively easy ball for my partner at the baseline that would allow him to move forward I will say "come up". But other than that, it is pretty much always "Mine" or "ME".

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by Spokewench

I hate to make gender based statements, but I will this time. Most women over the age of 40 do not cover a lob over their heads well. For some reason, women seem to have a harder time moving backward than men do. They get off balance and do not use their feet optimally.

Yeah, what's up with that? I find myself doing some seriously ghastly footwork for overheads sometimes.

You would think women would be better at overheads. I mean, we tend to be shorter, have a lower center of gravity. We ought to be able to scurry back for overheads like crabs.

But no. We waddle backward like ducks.

I'm trying to fix this, myself. I'm trying really hard to remember to turn, to keep my feet moving and not set up too soon.

And I'm trying to practice hitting overheads well from deep in the court. I think some of the bad overhead footwork you see is because, deep down, the woman doesn't want to hit an overhead from deep in the court. So we don't back up because we don't want to be back.

I am getting better, thank goodness. I'm making a higher percentage of overheads, and I am putting them in the alleys rather than right back to the player at the baseline. But it is a struggle.

[stapletonj]

Overly Manly Man says:

men's doubles - ALWAYS take the overheads on your side of the Court. If your partner tries to cross and take it, ignore him, hit the shot, if you hit him with your racket in executing the shot, good. You are here to establish yourself as the alpha male of the team and this can only help. Resist the temptation to dry hump him to further cement your dominance. That is reserved for the other team during change overs.

mixed doubles - When retreating for a lob and your female partner says "MINE" or whatever and runs over to take the shot, let her take it. Whatever you do, do not cross and cover the rest of the court. Get back to where you could have hit a shot, stop, and place your hands on your hips and watch her execute the shot.

At this point one of two things will happen, she will hit a winner, or the other team will block the ball into the open side of the court (HER SIDE).

IF they block the ball into her side of the court, before it bounces the second time, gently say "YOUR SIDE, BABE" as it dribbles off for a winner. Then shadow stroke the shot you would have hit had she not taken it from you. This will increase her confidence in you as a partner, since you have visually demonstrated your ability to have gotten the ball. Finish up with some pointers on how protecting her alley is paramount and her position there is one that is vital for the team's success. If she appears confused or reluctant, gently place your hands on her arms and place her in the proper position in the alley for the next point.

If she happens to hit an unreturnable shot, you have a prime opportunity for a "teaching moment". Describe to her a flaw in her technique on that shot and how to correct it.

But always always always remember to end things before the next point with some positive reinforcement. A playful slap on her posterior with a positive comment about her sexuality is mandatory.

Follow these simple rules and be successful, happy, popular and manly!

[Spokewench]

Originally Posted by stapletonj

Overly Manly Man says:

men's doubles - ALWAYS take the overheads on your side of the Court. If your partner tries to cross and take it, ignore him, hit the shot, if you hit him with your racket in executing the shot, good. You are here to establish yourself as the alpha male of the team and this can only help. Resist the temptation to dry hump him to further cement your dominance. That is reserved for the other team during change overs.

mixed doubles - When retreating for a lob and your female partner says "MINE" or whatever and runs over to take the shot, let her take it. Whatever you do, do not cross and cover the rest of the court. Get back to where you could have hit a shot, stop, and place your hands on your hips and watch her execute the shot.

At this point one of two things will happen, she will hit a winner, or the other team will block the ball into the open side of the court (HER SIDE).

IF they block the ball into her side of the court, before it bounces the second time, gently say "YOUR SIDE, BABE" as it dribbles off for a winner. Then shadow stroke the shot you would have hit had she not taken it from you. This will increase her confidence in you as a partner, since you have visually demonstrated your ability to have gotten the ball. Finish up with some pointers on how protecting her alley is paramount and her position there is one that is vital for the team's success. If she appears confused or reluctant, gently place your hands on her arms and place her in the proper position in the alley for the next point.

If she happens to hit an unreturnable shot, you have a prime opportunity for a "teaching moment". Describe to her a flaw in her technique on that shot and how to correct it.

But always always always remember to end things before the next point with some positive reinforcement. A playful slap on her posterior with a positive comment about her sexuality is mandatory.

Follow these simple rules and be successful, happy, popular and manly!

You are an idiot

[Cindysphinx]

I think he was teasing.

Except for the dry humping part. That is good advice.

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by Spokewench

You are an idiot

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

I think he was teasing.

Except for the dry humping part. That is good advice.

SJ, don't let a stray comment from the peanut gallery deter you from speaking to the joys of mx'ed. Lenny Bruce faced some critics too, but he didn't let them keep him from soaring. The relationship between the sexes has never been the same since the invention of the electric starter and power steering.

Cheers

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

...I find myself doing some seriously ghastly footwork for overheads sometimes.

...You would think women would be better at overheads. I mean, we tend to be shorter, have a lower center of gravity. We ought to be able to scurry back for overheads like crabs.

...But no. We waddle backward like ducks.

Take heart Cindy, you can do it! One of the best players in women's tennis, Rosie Casals, was diminutive but had a great OH. Even men players like Ilie Nastase, who she won two Wimby mx'ed titles with, would defer to her OH.

http://www.tennisfame.com/hall-of-famers/rosie-casals

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosemary_Casals

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

I mean, we tend to be shorter, have a lower center of gravity.

Men's CG is just above the belly button. Women's is just below.

[stapletonj]

Power steering? What's that? You mean the fact that I have great forearms from tennis from driving?
Next thing you 'll be telling me that they have
something to shift the gears for you....

[Spokewench]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

I think he was teasing.

Except for the dry humping part. That is good advice.

Yeah great advice if the male wants to get beat over the head with my babolat racquet. Some jokes are better left unsaid even on a male dominated site