Pacific Tough Gut - really tough

[JT_2eighty]

Originally Posted by parasailing

You must be lucky or I got two bad sets of ToughGut and Prime as both sets definitely felt inferior in terms of QC. When I pulled them through the grommets, some of the strings definitely felt uneven which I never had any issues with VS.

They are one of the longer lasting gut but they did not feel as soft and elastic as the original VS and at the current price, for me, I rather go with X1 Biphase instead.

Pacific guts are definitely not as soft as VS. Personally that fits my needs, as I can string Pacific low 50s to match my preferred tension for poly (48-50lb). With VS, I couldn't get good control if I dropped below 60 pounds, and then with poly crosses would have needed to keep them close (within 1-3 pounds to avoid deformation), and a 57+ lb pound poly in my tight stringbed just isn't my cup of tea.

It's not for everyone, but I think they are great with poly in the low 50 range, especially for mid to mp users with dense 18x20s.

[corners]

Originally Posted by JT_2eighty

^^ well, thanks... now I want to try Monogut zx! Just when I thought I was 'done' testing new strings, :/

Sorry mate!

[maxpotapov]

Originally Posted by corners

The most important info on Monogut ZX is that zyex is the only string material other than natural gut to not increases in stiffness at higher tensions. Monogut ZX is about 10-15% stiffer than natural gut, and only about 60% as stiff as the softest copolys. So I would string accordingly: as a cross with gut mains I would string both the gut mains and the ZX crosses tighter than you would with gut/copoly. The cool thing is that even if you bump up the tension by 10 pounds the gut/ZX will still produce a faster shot than gut/copoly because the dynamic stiffness of both the gut and the zyex will stay pretty much constant as you increase in tension. But the strings will deflect less at higher tensions, so you will have more control and a more consistent shot-to-shot response.

Monogut ZX would also be very interesting as a gut replacement in a gut/copoly setup. It does not have quite the energy return of natural gut, but if strung 5 pounds tighter I think ZX/copoly would be worth a punt.

Perhaps even better would be as a cross with a shaped copoly main. ZX is much less stiff and also slippier than any multi, so it should excel as a cross with copoly mains.

Sorry to barge in with the unsolicited advice!

I still have half a set of WC B5E somewhere, I'll use it as a cross for Zyex. Something tells me that Zyex mains will not snap back, but it's just a gut feeling

Wait, you meant shaped poly mains, now it makes sense! I will use Black Widow then

[scotus]

Originally Posted by JT_2eighty

Pacific guts are definitely not as soft as VS. Personally that fits my needs, as I can string Pacific low 50s to match my preferred tension for poly (48-50lb). With VS, I couldn't get good control if I dropped below 60 pounds, and then with poly crosses would have needed to keep them close (within 1-3 pounds to avoid deformation), and a 57+ lb pound poly in my tight stringbed just isn't my cup of tea.

It's not for everyone, but I think they are great with poly in the low 50 range, especially for mid to mp users with dense 18x20s.

If your stringing machine has a semi-decent mounting system, you can go 10 lbs lower on the poly than on gut and not see deformation. Polys are just that much stiffer.

I should add that I am talking about VS mains and poly crosses, not the other way around.

[maxpotapov]

Two weeks later I had another light hitting session with Pacific Tough Gut / WC Mosquito Bite in Prestige LM Mid. It now feels more like normal natural gut / poly, not too lively/powerful but initial "toughness" is now gone. Serve was accurate and effortless, with no ill effects on my shoulder. It is good to know that stringbed helps to launch the ball in a controllable way.

[Muppet]

Originally Posted by scotus

If your stringing machine has a semi-decent mounting system, you can go 10 lbs lower on the poly than on gut and not see deformation. Polys are just that much stiffer.

I should add that I am talking about VS mains and poly crosses, not the other way around.

Something just occured to me. If you have a large differential between main/cross, would it help to leave your racquet mounted overnight to allow the tensions to drop and equalize? (I'm probably not the first to think of this.)

[Rabbit]

Originally Posted by Muppet

Something just occured to me. If you have a large differential between main/cross, would it help to leave your racquet mounted overnight to allow the tensions to drop and equalize? (I'm probably not the first to think of this.)

No, definitely not. Using a stringing machine to attempt to compensate for this is not recommended at all.

[Muppet]

Originally Posted by Rabbit

No, definitely not. Using a stringing machine to attempt to compensate for this is not recommended at all.

Okay, Rabbit. I won't attempt it. Thanks for the advice.

[JT_2eighty]

Originally Posted by scotus

If your stringing machine has a semi-decent mounting system, you can go 10 lbs lower on the poly than on gut and not see deformation. Polys are just that much stiffer.

I should add that I am talking about VS mains and poly crosses, not the other way around.

I've tried a larger difference in tension, and I just didn't like the feel. Also, in my very flexible frame, deformation did start to occur over time as the poly lost tension and the gut held strong. The head almost went completely circular, so I don't mess with that anymore on my old sticks.

I have also tried a 20-lb differential on the stiffer YTPP, and it did not deform. I think modern sticks are much more resistant to the deformation issue, but older flexy frame do not respond well to a high difference, so I just stick with a 2-3 pound difference, and 52/49 has been great to me with Pacific Tough all the way.

[maxpotapov]

Next two hours on my Tough Gut / WC Mosquito Bite setup. No fraying or notching on the gut and not even a dent on poly! And it feels plush, very arm-protective even on poorly executed shots where syn gut/poly would severely punish me. And thin red crosses look really good in my Prestige Mid

It's funny how top spin shots are seemingly flying out and then suddenly dip into the court at the last moment. My opponent said it was dumb luck, but I was lucky many more than once yesterday

[ASH1485]

i will be stringing Pacific Tough gut as mains and Alu power as crosses in my Vcore 89, what tensions shall i go with here ?

i see people here talking low 50s for the tough gut

[maxpotapov]

Originally Posted by ASH1485

i will be stringing Pacific Tough gut as mains and Alu power as crosses in my Vcore 89, what tensions shall i go with here ?

i see people here talking low 50s for the tough gut

I would not go higher than 50 lbs for the Tough Gut, especially in a mid sized frame. Like I said before, it may feel rather tough on your arm the first few hours, even at 50 lbs. But after break-in it becomes springy while retaining great sense of control.

[julian]

Originally Posted by maxpotapov

I would not go higher than 50 lbs for the Tough Gut, especially in a mid sized frame. Like I said before, it may feel rather tough on your arm the first few hours, even at 50 lbs. But after break-in it becomes springy while retaining great sense of control.

You should specify the gauge when making a recommendation as above

[maxpotapov]

Originally Posted by julian

You shpuld specify the gauge when making a recommendation as above

Yes, I mean 16L
What tension would you recommend?

[ASH1485]

Originally Posted by julian

You should specify the gauge when making a recommendation as above

the sets i have are 16

[ASH1485]

i play tested the tough gut on my vcore 89 strung " 50 , i liked the playability and performance of the strings. they felt a bit rough for a natural gut but that doesnt mean that its not soft. will try it next in a hybrid.
in my opinion it should cost less than 38$, i would personally add 4$ more and get the Babolat VS

[maxpotapov]

Originally Posted by ASH1485

i play tested the tough gut on my vcore 89 strung " 50 , i liked the playability and performance of the strings. they felt a bit rough for a natural gut but that doesnt mean that its not soft. will try it next in a hybrid.
in my opinion it should cost less than 38$, i would personally add 4$ more and get the Babolat VS

Wait till it breaks in, it will play a lot nicer.
Price difference with Babolat VS can be much greater if you take into consideration durability.
Besides, people complain that BT7 version of Babolat VS plays a lot harsher, than it used to. Personally I would try Wilson Natural Gut 16 next...

[JT_2eighty]

Yea, a few months ago, Pacific raised their prices.

Their guts used to price at $29, $35 & $38.95; for classic, tough and prime, respectively. Recently they bumped everything up so that Prime is level is VS, and on down. The old prices made Pacific, IMHO, the best price/performance gut you can find. The new prices do make VS look more 'reasonable', if it weren't for the introduction of BT7 that has pushed many gut loyalists to other brands.

I'm still working through my stock of Tough that I found elsewhere for $31 a set... and boy am I nursing it the best I can! Hybriding helps keep the strings alive, & string savers, refreshing the crosses, etc., ...

[netguy]

Originally Posted by JT_2eighty

Yea, a few months ago, Pacific raised their prices.

Their guts used to price at $29, $35 & $38.95; for classic, tough and prime, respectively. Recently they bumped everything up so that Prime is level is VS, and on down. The old prices made Pacific, IMHO, the best price/performance gut you can find. The new prices do make VS look more 'reasonable', if it weren't for the introduction of BT7 that has pushed many gut loyalists to other brands.

I'm still working through my stock of Tough that I found elsewhere for $31 a set... and boy am I nursing it the best I can! Hybriding helps keep the strings alive, & string savers, refreshing the crosses, etc., ...

So, it seems that you don't enjoy full bed Tough as much as in a hybrid setup...Can you tell us the pros and cons of both setups? also, when you said "hybriding helps keep the strings alive", could you say a bit more about it?.....how long does the aliveness last for in your experience? thanks

[JT_2eighty]

Originally Posted by netguy

So, it seems that you don't enjoy full bed Tough as much as in a hybrid setup...Can you tell us the pros and cons of both setups?

Pros of full gut: feel, power, comfort & touch. By far, natural gut is amazing in a full bed for those seeking maximum comfort, power and ball-feel. The pocketing of gut is unmatched by any string, it is the most elastic string material, especially when strung in the 60-plus range, control should not be an issue, but a full gut setup lends itself better to certain frames than others.

Cons of full gut: durability, cost and when compared to any setup that incorporates poly, less spin too. Control can be an issue for some, especially using oversized and/or high stiffness, high power, & very open patterned racquets. Generally speaking, the stiffer and more open your string pattern, the more power, less control and less durability you will get from gut.

Pros of Gut/Poly: spin, control, and second place to full gut for feel & power (unless using very stiff polys). Comfort drops when any poly is introduced, but control and spin definitely become easier to manage, as those poly crosses help 'tame' the power of your gut mains. Also, the gut mains still impart a great deal of feel and playability, overall. This can depend on which cross you use: ALU will greatly add to control and spin capabilities while seriously diminishing the comfort and feel, while a very soft poly like WC MB will allow the feel and power of the gut to still be felt as much as possible. Using a soft poly, for me, allows for the added control and spin of poly crosses, with the least impact to overall feel of the gut mains. Heavier hitters will prefer a stiffer ALU-like string as it will simulate the feel of full poly, with solid control and some added power & feel from the gut mains.

Cons of Gut/Poly: durability (for some)...for those using open string patterns- you may not get good durability, but for dense pattern mid to midplus users, this may not be an issue. Playability over time can be non-linear, while a full gut holds strong for the duration, incorporating co-polys which are known to be fast-dying strings can add a feature to your stringbed that some will not like: changing playability over time (loss of control, loss of feel, etc). Personally, I have a hard time listing any "big" negative features. It is my preferred setup, so I do truly find it to bring the best features of both gut and poly together. If you have any arm issues, comfort will be a factor, as even poly in the crosses to gut will still transmit more shock to the arm than a full gut or full multi.

See durability thoughts below:

Originally Posted by netguy

... also, when you said "hybriding helps keep the strings alive", could you say a bit more about it?.....how long does the aliveness last for in your experience? thanks

In my trials with Tough Gut 16L in a full bed, it lasted about 11 hours of court time (singles match play @ 4.5 level), in a dense, 18x20 midplus. I've also tried Prime 17 and Classic 17 in full beds, which lasted 11.5 hours and 5.5 hours, respectively. As a reference, using the old 'pre-BT7' VS 17 in a full bed lasted me 7.5 hours.

While my trials are not exactly 'scientific' or fool-proof (as I only tried each of these strings once in a full bed, cost being a big factor), I have since been on a hybrid testing 'rampage' if you will. With Tough Gut coming in at the best price/performance of the 4 above, I chose Tough Gut 16L to be my go-to main, and have continually been experimenting with every cross that peaks my interest.

On average, Tough Gut 16L crossed with most polys in 16L to 17 gauge, survives for 20-30 hours before breaking or going completely dead, for me in the dense, flexy PT280 18x20.

The key, imho, is that coupling a smooth & slick poly cross to natural gut allows the gut to slide across the strings with less friction, thereby preventing notching that occurs in a gut on gut stringbed. Much like a full syn gut or full multi starts to notch and fray upon itself over time, Gut/Poly frays over time, but without the destructive notching from 'sticking together' you would similarly get with full syn or multi. Even after 20+ hours, my gut mains never require re-straightening or adjusting. So my search has been to find a poly that remains consistent as long as possible. So far, WC MB is that cross.