Group Classes - Yes or No

[Metalica]

I think its okay to have about 3 ppl in a class. The students can hit with each other and may be have a doubles game where the weakest player team up with the coach. I remember when I lived in Vietnam, they had like 20 people in a class. Now that's just silly.

[Metalica]

also good point by coachingmastery. Self taught players can get to a certain level quicker than technical players but they can never advance beyond that. Of course this is all fine if you only play for fun i.e 90%+ of club players. Sorry for the double post.

[CoachingMastery]

One point I'll add here that I should have included: there are different levels of being "self-taught" that can make a difference.

A 'self-taught' player who studies the game, observes what top players do, why they do it, and understands how they do it...then emulates these patterns is going to do far better generally than a player who goes out and tries to figure out how to hit the ball over the net with no preconceived way to accomplish this.

Kid especially will learn the latter method...parents can be the worst person in this because many simply toss balls to a youngster and tells them to "aim higher" "swing slower" "swing sooner" etc...hoping that the kid will eventually learn to aim, swing, and time the shot...which they will. Unfortunately, there are dozens of ways to ineffectively hit a ball over the net towards some given target or zone. By replicating this ineffective method of hitting the ball, the parent (or coach) will effectively limit the potential of the kid.

Adults, even skilled athletes, I've seen learn this way too. They develop an ability to make the ball go over the net quickly, but they stagnate soon after and fail to really make any strides later in life, unless they fight through the frustration of changing the dynamics of their ineffective stroke.

I've seen dozens of players with very few lessons excel. Why? Because they took on the role of "coach" themselves by studying the game as I've described above. They create their own "lessons" by watching, carefully observing, asking questions, and coming to correct conclusions.

Yet, even these players can benefit from lessons from quality instructors. It can save time, clairfy uncertainty, and avoid some mistakes.

I am not advocating everyone SHOULD take lessons. I'm saying that it can help players develop the proper strokes that can help them reach their potential and avoid working on ineffective strokes that can hinder this goal. But, players, especially in today's world of Internet, can study the game better than any time prior and get "lessons" throught this technology.

However, nothing is better than having a great coach who knows his or her stuff, and the personality that can connect with an individual.

[Passion4Tennis]

Originally Posted by CoachingMastery

One point I'll add here that I should have included: there are different levels of being "self-taught" that can make a difference.

A 'self-taught' player who studies the game, observes what top players do, why they do it, and understands how they do it...then emulates these patterns is going to do far better generally than a player who goes out and tries to figure out how to hit the ball over the net with no preconceived way to accomplish this.

Kid especially will learn the latter method...parents can be the worst person in this because many simply toss balls to a youngster and tells them to "aim higher" "swing slower" "swing sooner" etc...hoping that the kid will eventually learn to aim, swing, and time the shot...which they will. Unfortunately, there are dozens of ways to ineffectively hit a ball over the net towards some given target or zone. By replicating this ineffective method of hitting the ball, the parent (or coach) will effectively limit the potential of the kid.

Adults, even skilled athletes, I've seen learn this way too. They develop an ability to make the ball go over the net quickly, but they stagnate soon after and fail to really make any strides later in life, unless they fight through the frustration of changing the dynamics of their ineffective stroke.

I've seen dozens of players with very few lessons excel. Why? Because they took on the role of "coach" themselves by studying the game as I've described above. They create their own "lessons" by watching, carefully observing, asking questions, and coming to correct conclusions.

Yet, even these players can benefit from lessons from quality instructors. It can save time, clairfy uncertainty, and avoid some mistakes.

I am not advocating everyone SHOULD take lessons. I'm saying that it can help players develop the proper strokes that can help them reach their potential and avoid working on ineffective strokes that can hinder this goal. But, players, especially in today's world of Internet, can study the game better than any time prior and get "lessons" throught this technology.

However, nothing is better than having a great coach who knows his or her stuff, and the personality that can connect with an individual.

Excellent post, Dave, as usual. The highlighted part describes my situation well. I took group lessons when I was 20 at a community college. A year later I took between 8-10 private lessons, and then stopped due to financial reasons.

Since then, I've mainly learned through tips in Tennis Magazine, watching video tapes (Bollettieri, Braden, and Van Der Meer), studying the pros, and getting some useful advice on this forum as well as watching videos on Youtube. I wish I had been able to continue taking more lessons when I was younger. It would have saved a lot of time and frustration over the years, especially with some of the flaws in my serve, which has been my biggest problem by far.

Ugh, I forgot to mention that I have your book, Coaching Mastery. I have used it to teach a few of my friends and family members. It has helped tremendously.

[TCF]

=================

[CoachingMastery]

Thank you both, TCF and Passion. I'm glad my book has helped you and others...certainly a goal I had hoped for in writing them!

I hope you both--and all those here--have a wonderful Christmas; or, those who celebrate other holidays or just have a spirit for life, love, health and prosperity, may you all enjoy the season and look forward to a New Year.

Best wishes!

Dave

[Passion4Tennis]

Merry Christmas, Dave and I hope you continue to post here often in the new year!

[goober]

Originally Posted by slowfox

What's your take on group classes? Cardio tennis, bootcamps, live ball drills, drill play, or just plain ol' group lessons - Are they worthwhile?

Some folks in my area have told me that these classes are super fun, but people don't really learn anything. One guy told me he paid $30 for a 1hr group class, 8 players in the group, they lined up and took turns hitting balls fed to them. This guy even counted how many balls he got to hit during this hour. Turned out to be around 35. That's almost a buck a ball..!

Any feedback is much appreciated. Thank you all very much.

Cardio tennis is good for what it is suppose to be - a cardio work out that involves tennis. Sure beats running on a treadmill.

Adult clinics- the ones I have been to have been a lot better than $30 for hour with 8 people and 35 hits. More like $15 with 3-6 players for 1.5 hours. Generally these are drills so don't expect to learn anything technical. Are they worth it? To me yes when I don't have anyone that I can play with or I don't want to do social doubles. $30 for one hour with 8 people I wouldn't do.

Group lessons- probably only good for lower level players(1.0-3.5) that can't afford private 1 on 1 lessons. I haven't seen higher level players in group lessons.

[Metalica]

"I've seen dozens of players with very few lessons excel. Why? Because they took on the role of "coach" themselves by studying the game as I've described above. They create their own "lessons" by watching, carefully observing, asking questions, and coming to correct conclusions."
This is pretty much me you're said however, I don't think I 'excel' yet (getting there through steady progess ). I didn't refer to this type of learning as self teaching before because I believe I'm still being taught by people other than my self. This type of learning is good because it gives you a more indepth understanding of the game;why you need to do things a certain way. Often I see coaches tell people vague instructions like 'hit longer' or 'punch the volley'. While the player may get it right at that moment, they go back to their old habit eventually. This is just my experience however and I am aware that there are good coaches out there. The point I'm making is that improvement should come also from your own desire to research and experiment, not just the things the coach tells you to do.

[Shaggy]

I've taken quite a few of them over the past three years (that's how long I've been playing). I live in Chicago where the winters are cold and snowy. Playing outdoors is impossible from about the middle of November through the middle of April, so during that span the only real option for me to get any time on the court is to take group classes.

When I started out, I took group classes exclusively. Started out once a week. Then a couple of sessions later moved to twice a week. When you're a beginner, they can be quite helpful. As you get better, you can still get something out of group classes, but only if you combine them with more time on the court outside of class, hopefully by playing with other people of a similar level. One of the benefits of the classes is they make it easy to connect with people who are about at your level, and if you can hit the court with some of them outside of class, then you'll start to see much faster improvement than classes alone. If you're able to add some private lessons on top of that, again, you'll see faster improvement.

So I don't agree that group classes are totally useless. Most of the time you get out of them what you put into them. But I do have to say that, yes, some of the drills have seemed somewhat pointless and didn't really seem to help me or anyone else improve and that felt like a frustrating waste of time.

Bottom line: I think they can be useful, but you got to do some work on your own as well. If you're just going to class once a week and hoping that's going to help you improve, then it probably won't happen.

[The Meat]

If theres more than 10 people on one court, don't pay more than $15/hour. You will get barely anytime to actually practice specific strokes.

Better off getting a private instructor and paying more, you will get more out of the lesson.