Forgive me you Sissies

[Graphiteking]

Originally Posted by Mick3391

Grow up! Quit whining, asking for advice, you going to be a star listening to our tips?

Go out there and be a man! I started playing at like 12 with my brother who was 21, I lost, lost, lost, but had desire, so got better and wipped him. Just go do your own thing or stop whining. Can't serve? Then PRACTICE! Poor forehand? PRACTICE!

There is no magical formula we can give you to lean, do what we did, that is work our tails off to get good, lose, win, win, lose, just fight through it. Run up to 5 miles, but also do sprints. Practice against a wall, just STOP with the "If I only hold my hand ......." nonsense.

I'm sorry, I just see so many wooses on this forum, can't play there is no suggestion for you except for you to play and learn yourself, how do you think we learned?

Even those who go to Tennis Academies only learn what they are taught, Tennis is much more than what you are taught, it's like boxing, unique to you.

BAH HUMBUG

[vil]

Well, you've got a point in a way. I agree with, go out and there and practice but what if you do it all wrong? The thing is, if you are satisfied with your game , then that's fine but you might get to the point where you hit the brick wall and won't improve anymore because your style or form won't allow that. Sometimes a small piece of advice is all that is needed. You can get some great advice here if you are keen and interested. I don't think people are whining here and I wouldn't call them sissies. Don't get me wrong but that's just a very narrow minded view.

[eidolonshinobi]

I agree with the motivation. I don't agree with the execution. I have filmed myself playing and posted it here for tips and critiques. I take all the critiques and comments and filter out what I can and can't do right away. There are somethings that are better with another set of eyes. Tennis has to be one of them because of how innately technical the sport is.

While I attribute my tennis success and development on my own motivation and perseverance, I can't deny that the folks in this forum who gave good advice has helped me on my tennis path.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by eidolonshinobi

I agree with the motivation. I don't agree with the execution. I have filmed myself playing and posted it here for tips and critiques. I take all the critiques and comments and filter out what I can and can't do right away. There are somethings that are better with another set of eyes. Tennis has to be one of them because of how innately technical the sport is.

What sport is not technical?

[eidolonshinobi]

Originally Posted by sureshs

What sport is not technical?

Well I hope you're only prying for more elaboration. But tennis is more technical than some sports (like American football). I played varsity in high school, while some positions (mainly quarterback) requires more technical skill to perform well than others, you can be very good at the sport by just being athletic. Mostly anyone can just pick up a ball run towards a destination while trying to avoid getting tackled.

While in tennis you have at least two that you need to be proficient at to even win games. The serve and return. The serve especially needs more work than most strokes because of so many moving parts.

Source: I played basketball and got picked up for football my speed. Played and started at slot and free safety, I hated getting hit . I made varsity without trying, and we won CIF the year I played. I've played tennis for two years and I'm still at the 4.0ish level.

buuuuuutttttt....I think you're just nitpicking.

[Mick3391]

Originally Posted by vil

Well, you've got a point in a way. I agree with, go out and there and practice but what if you do it all wrong? The thing is, if you are satisfied with your game , then that's fine but you might get to the point where you hit the brick wall and won't improve anymore because your style or form won't allow that. Sometimes a small piece of advice is all that is needed. You can get some great advice here if you are keen and interested. I don't think people are whining here and I wouldn't call them sissies. Don't get me wrong but that's just a very narrow minded view.

Yea I definitely said it wrong.

I'm not so sure about what you are saying, I agree with the statement "Practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect", but I never had anyone teach me, many I know never had anyone, oh we get tips here or there, but like I said, playing others, you have to get better or you get killed, if someone is willing to put in hours on the wall, run, play, really enjoy it, you do learn.

I just don't think you can hear "Well hold your racquet like this, move this way and you'll have a monster forehand" for example, I do think you can only get a monster forehand by practicing non-stop.

Again, it's just my opinion, someone who never went to an academy, or took lessons. Sometimes I wonder how effective I am at teaching my son, maybe it's just our non-stop playing.

[goober]

Originally Posted by Mick3391

Grow up! Quit whining, asking for advice, you going to be a star listening to our tips?

Go out there and be a man! I started playing at like 12 with my brother who was 21, I lost, lost, lost, but had desire, so got better and wipped him. Just go do your own thing or stop whining. Can't serve? Then PRACTICE! Poor forehand? PRACTICE!

There is no magical formula we can give you to lean, do what we did, that is work our tails off to get good, lose, win, win, lose, just fight through it. Run up to 5 miles, but also do sprints. Practice against a wall, just STOP with the "If I only hold my hand ......." nonsense.

I'm sorry, I just see so many wooses on this forum, can't play there is no suggestion for you except for you to play and learn yourself, how do you think we learned?

Even those who go to Tennis Academies only learn what they are taught, Tennis is much more than what you are taught, it's like boxing, unique to you.

Uh you do realize this a tips/instruction forum? What exactly do you expect these threads to be about?

What you are doing is akin to going to the health/fitness section and telling people to stop being wussies and stop asking questions and get into shape and heal up.

[TCF]

=======================

[Mick3391]

Originally Posted by goober

Uh you do realize this a tips/instruction forum? What exactly do you expect these threads to be about?

What you are doing is akin to going to the health/fitness section and telling people to stop being wussies and stop asking questions and get into shape and heal up.

I know, I know, I said it stupid. I tried to make a point but did it in a lame way.

[Mick3391]

Originally Posted by TCF

I think your way can work up to a point. Depends what level of tennis your son wants to reach.

My daughter is also a 'gym rat' in regards to tennis. She will hit vs the wall for hours or vs the machine until we have to pull her off the court or with me until I beg for mercy. BUT....she also has had expert coaching and her strokes look like a pros, and her serve is technically light years ahead of most kids her age.

So down the line who do you think will win more? The tennis crazed kid who also has been taught the most efficient technique, tactics, strategy, and injury prevention methods....or the tennis loving kid who was not?

I honestly don't know, some teachers teach wrong, or teach something out of their natural style. Like teaching a boxer how to be aggressive and punch, doesn't work. I've had guys come up to my son and give just rotten advice.

To I just try to tell him how to play from the baseline, the net, all the shots, but I think only he can find HIS true style, he's not a robot, I think I can only give outlines, once I start saying "Do this, do that", he falls apart thinking.

[TCF]

=========================

[Mick3391]

Originally Posted by TCF

I hear that....bad coaching is worse than no coaching!

I agree with you in some ways. I have students whose parents spend countless hours on formal lesson, driving and planning for tournaments, obsessing about where to play, and on and on. But the kids never just hit informally and experiment.

If they put some of that formal time into just letting the kids hit vs the wall, the machine, friends, parents, etc. they would improve much faster.

You know what's weird, when I am telling him what to do as the ball is coming to him, he's a disaster. When I shut my big mouth and hit it hard, he's fine, he's not thinking so hard, just doing.

That being said, at the club, the pro teaches this kid whose just awesome, he talks to the kid for each shot and it doesn't seem to matter.

So I don't know, for me I'm just going to give outlines, I mean I tried to explain serve, what a disaster, I'm not even aware of how I serve, I just do it, but once I said "Just hit it to me when we rally", he picked it up, so you got me!

[5263]

Originally Posted by Mick3391

When I played Justin Bower, he was gracious enough to hit with my son. He brought him up and said, "Do you know the three main styles of the best"? Mick was a little puzzled, Justin said "Well Nadal takes a shot and hits it back with placement with huge topspin, Djoke moves and hits hard flat shots, Federer does it all depending on the situation", to me that's great teaching, just broad strokes.

Anyways thanks all for being kind

You mean you don't have to watch 100's of hi speed video?

I agree with the idea that... a little direction can go a long way.

[Hi I'm Ray]

Originally Posted by Mick3391

You know what's weird, when I am telling him what to do as the ball is coming to him, he's a disaster. When I shut my big mouth and hit it hard, he's fine, he's not thinking so hard, just doing.

That being said, at the club, the pro teaches this kid whose just awesome, he talks to the kid for each shot and it doesn't seem to matter.

Did you mean while its approaching him, or before the shot? Usually a player needs to make up their mind as soon as they recognize the shot. Changing their mind or second guessing their choice of shot while the player is about to hit the ball usually leads to errors.

It's weird getting shot to shot instructions (before the shot) at first but you get used to it. Its not so hard to pick up if the instructions are simple or familiar adjustments and the incoming shots & location are predictable. Not saying this is you, but in general complex instructions and unpredictable balls in a random rally usually = disaster.

[Akubra]

Yes it takes years to learn. But good advice and instruction can take years off the time it takes you to learn to play well. And unless you learn to do things well, no matter how much you play you'll always be limited. I know plenty of guys who play 2-3 times a week and have for many years and yet they don't get better. Their technique will always limit them.

It's great for you that apparently you never needed any help or advice. But as you said at the end of your post: it's like boxing, unique to you. Everyone is different. Some people get a lot from receiving help from others. Why do you care so much? Did you really come to the sub forum for Tennis Tips/Instruction purely to complain about people asking for... tennis tips and instruction?

[Mick3391]

Originally Posted by 5263

You mean you don't have to watch 100's of hi speed video?

I agree with the idea that... a little direction can go a long way.

Wait 5263, you are an instructor?

Tell us your view. What do you think, try not to be biased

I mean like I said, we meet so many "Experts", for some reason they feel the right to walk up to my son and say "Here, you need to hold this western grip", or what have you, it's amazing to me really.

Seems like whenever I give specific, I mean I taught him eastern grip one handed everything, but aside from that whenever I give exact instructions, do this, do that, it seems like he's thinking through it so hard he can't play, but when I give broad direction, run around the back hand and hit it to my backhand, then we just play he does it.

How much is enough? Would appreciate your input.

[rkelley]

Originally Posted by Mick3391

Grow up! Quit whining, asking for advice, you going to be a star listening to our tips?

Go out there and be a man! I started playing at like 12 with my brother who was 21, I lost, lost, lost, but had desire, so got better and wipped him. Just go do your own thing or stop whining. Can't serve? Then PRACTICE! Poor forehand? PRACTICE!

There is no magical formula we can give you to lean, do what we did, that is work our tails off to get good, lose, win, win, lose, just fight through it. Run up to 5 miles, but also do sprints. Practice against a wall, just STOP with the "If I only hold my hand ......." nonsense.

I'm sorry, I just see so many wooses on this forum, can't play there is no suggestion for you except for you to play and learn yourself, how do you think we learned?

Even those who go to Tennis Academies only learn what they are taught, Tennis is much more than what you are taught, it's like boxing, unique to you.

Originally Posted by pushing_wins

merry christmas

And happy New Year too, seriously.

[rkelley]

Originally Posted by Mick3391

When I played Justin Bower, he was gracious enough to hit with my son. He brought him up and said, "Do you know the three main styles of the best"? Mick was a little puzzled, Justin said "Well Nadal takes a shot and hits it back with placement with huge topspin, Djoke moves and hits hard flat shots, Federer does it all depending on the situation", to me that's great teaching, just broad strokes.

Djoke - Novak Djokovic - The tall Serbian dude, #1 in the world currently? His grip is almost full W on the fh and while he can certainly flatten it out when he wants, he hits with quite a bit of topspin generally - at least whenever I've watched him play. He hits with a lot of pace too, but don't think that those balls don't have a ton of topspin. He has a nice swing path and gets good topspin off the bh side as well. Love his bh.

[5263]

Originally Posted by Mick3391

Wait 5263, you are an instructor?

Tell us your view. What do you think, try not to be biased

I mean like I said, we meet so many "Experts", for some reason they feel the right to walk up to my son and say "Here, you need to hold this western grip", or what have you, it's amazing to me really.

Seems like whenever I give specific, I mean I taught him eastern grip one handed everything, but aside from that whenever I give exact instructions, do this, do that, it seems like he's thinking through it so hard he can't play, but when I give broad direction, run around the back hand and hit it to my backhand, then we just play he does it.

How much is enough? Would appreciate your input.

Well I think most of us coaches have made the mistake of talking too much and
and/or giving too much advice. Hopefully we learn from it. Several have made
good points that some amount of "good" instruction will help the time of
progression, but.... too much, even good advice, will slow things down too.

Maybe it's a little like trying to get to the nearest town when you don't know
where it is. If some one can point you in the correct direction, that will normally help a bit.
On the other hand, if he gives you complex, detailed direction on getting there, with a
few mistakes mixed in...you may be better off without him.

[Mick3391]

Originally Posted by Akubra

Yes it takes years to learn. But good advice and instruction can take years off the time it takes you to learn to play well. And unless you learn to do things well, no matter how much you play you'll always be limited. I know plenty of guys who play 2-3 times a week and have for many years and yet they don't get better. Their technique will always limit them.

It's great for you that apparently you never needed any help or advice. But as you said at the end of your post: it's like boxing, unique to you. Everyone is different. Some people get a lot from receiving help from others. Why do you care so much? Did you really come to the sub forum for Tennis Tips/Instruction purely to complain about people asking for... tennis tips and instruction?

I think I've apologized like 4 times now.