Silent Ban Discussion

[MasturB]

Originally Posted by joeri888

Agreed. Federer always stated how he found out what was needed to be a top player in 2000 when he started working with his italian fitness coach. It is said that he found out he needed to work on fitness more etc. etc., but who knows. Maybe he isn't Godly either and takes stuff you shouldnt be using. However, I still don't think it's likely, and even if it is so, the strokes they produce are not caused by doping. That's talent and technique.

lol well Fed was what, 18-19 in 2000?

I think him maturing as a player and practicing helps. His technique on his groundies are much more improved when watching hte film. It just kind of shows how much he developed and matured.

[joeri888]

Originally Posted by MasturB

lol well Fed was what, 18-19 in 2000?

I think him maturing as a player and practicing helps. His technique on his groundies are much more improved when watching hte film. It just kind of shows how much he developed and matured.

Sure he improved. But there's no way we can be sure some illegal products didnt help him do it

[wy2sl0]

Originally Posted by qindarka

Can't be too sure when it comes to pro sports. The fear is that all the top players are doping, which I don't think is terribly far-fetched.

Me neither, however there are tons of scientific studies that show tendonitis/tendon damage with steroid use.

One: http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=5297847
Two: http://caseconnector.jbjs.org/data/J...S/617/1345.pdf
Three: http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/19...ZRmdH816IZt.16

Connect the dots. Federer is in good shape but still shows fatigue over 5 sets, and muscle weakness (you can see A0 09 5th Set example).

Nadal Djoko Ao12? Are you joking me?

[MasturB]

Originally Posted by joeri888

Sure he improved. But there's no way we can be sure some illegal products didnt help him do it

I'm not saying Federer is clean at all. He is my favourite player, but he's been fortunate not to have the same injury problems as Nadal.

A lot of it has to do with his game and technique is just less taxing and his body, other could be he has more natural talent.

Nadal's game would probably induce him to use some drugs to recover. IDK.,

[qindarka]

Originally Posted by wy2sl0

Me neither, however there are tons of scientific studies that show tendonitis/tendon damage with steroid use.

One: http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=5297847
Two: http://caseconnector.jbjs.org/data/J...S/617/1345.pdf
Three: http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/19...ZRmdH816IZt.16

Connect the dots. Federer is in good shape but still shows fatigue over 5 sets, and muscle weakness (you can see A0 09 5th Set example).

Nadal Djoko Ao12? Are you joking me?

This isn't concrete proof or anything. Might be worth thinking about, that's all for now.

[TMF]

Originally Posted by AtomicForehand

No they aren't.

Certainly not the opposite.

[wy2sl0]

Originally Posted by qindarka

This isn't concrete proof or anything. Might be worth thinking about, that's all for now.

I agree I am not saying he is doping for sure, however it isn't as "out-there" as some of the nut huggers would like to believe.

[DropShotArtist]

Come on, every week it's something else. Knee better now so a flu virus is conjured up. Next it'll be girlfriend problems. If you don't realize it's a silent ban by now, then you are either 1) extremely naive, 2) Nadal fan girl.

[qindarka]

Originally Posted by DropShotArtist

Come on, every week it's something else. Knee better now so a flu virus is conjured up. Next it'll be girlfriend problems. If you don't realize it's a silent ban by now, then you are either 1) extremely naive, 2) Nadal fan girl.

Or one who believes in the importance of actual proof.

This is all speculation at the moment. There might be enough info that this issue is worth discussing but certainly nowhere near enough evidence to make serious accusations.

[dominikk1985]

If the ATP really did a silent ban it would lose all credebility to me.

if you are serious about anti doping you are not covering up and agree to a silent ban but you make it public. if that ever came out tennis and the ATP would be dead, that would be a scandal like in cycling.

a tested player needs to be banned publically so that he also loses all the sponsor money as well as his credibility. If the ATP really did that I could not consider tennis a serious sport anymore. that would be like WWE.

I really hope that is not true that would be a huge hit for international anti doping.
however in these days nothing really surprises me. The uci also covered up armstrong and I'm sure the NBA is covering up those rediculous video game kind of guys.

but right now I have the hope that tennis as a serious olympic sport is not doing such stuff.

[DropShotArtist]

Originally Posted by qindarka

Or one who believes in the importance of actual proof.

This is all speculation at the moment. There might be enough info that this issue is worth discussing but certainly nowhere near enough evidence to make serious accusations.

Disagree. If there is actual hard evidence like with Lance, then there's no more point for discussion. It's obvious. Discussion is only useful before actual evidence. Many people said Lance was completely innocent before all the evidence came rolling out. Sometimes you need to put 2 and 2 together without a calculator.

[qindarka]

Originally Posted by DropShotArtist

Disagree. If there is actual hard evidence like with Lance, then there's no more point for discussion. It's obvious. Discussion is only useful before actual evidence. Many people said Lance was completely innocent before all the evidence came rolling out. Sometimes you need to put 2 and 2 together without a calculator.

Yes, I am saying that this issue might be worth discussing. But what you were doing wasn't discussion, it was an accusation.

[DropShotArtist]

Originally Posted by qindarka

Yes, I am saying that this issue might be worth discussing. But what you were doing wasn't discussion, it was an accusation.

Discussions include ideas/accusations/theories. Semantics.

[West Coast Ace]

Originally Posted by Flash O'Groove

Better not to send a message than to acknowledge that the second biggest star is a doper, no? MasturB is right, it would be terrible for the tennis business, and I bet what is good or bad for the tennis business comes before any other consideration.

Agree. Throw all the Wayne Odesnik's as you can under the bus to show you're 'serious' about keeping the game clean.

But today's news doesn't fit - did the ATP/ITF just decide 6 months wasn't enough and threw in 1 more? Did they test him and he failed again? If so he'd get more than 1 more month. My friends who hate Nadal (I've just lost a lot of respect for him) don't believe in the ban; they think his 'chemists' have come up with some new concoction and they're just worried it might not be out of his system or might be detectable; so they told him to take 1 more month off to be sure.

Will probably never know. His camp is pretty tight; I don't expect someone to come forward 5 or 10 yrs after he's retired and say 'oh, yeah - he was using everything imaginable.'

[fedfan46]

what reason would there be to silently ban Soderling?

[veroniquem]

Originally Posted by qindarka

Can't be too sure when it comes to pro sports. The fear is that all the top players are doping, which I don't think is terribly far-fetched.

I'm leaning toward that suspicion, not just for tennis but for pro sport in general. It's all a matter of not getting caught. And it doesn't mean the pro athletes don't have the talent. But let's face it, in pro sport, they have to bring their best effort on a consistent basis, push their limits nonstop (more and more so) and recover ASAP when there is a problem. Tough ask.
This being said, in this ultra technological day and age, it's hard to believe a silent ban could be pulled off. Somewhere, some time, someone would manage to leak something. It seems inevitable.

[DropShotArtist]

Originally Posted by fedfan46

what reason would there be to silently ban Soderling?

Same reason as Nadal. Banned substance. Sod does hit one of the hardest balls on tour.

[fedfan46]

Originally Posted by qindarka

If Nadal is indeed doping, I wouldn't be too sure that Federer is definitely clean as well.

Seriously? It can be spun that Nadal is doping (always hurt, abnormally large muscles, etc) but what visible body changes has Federer undergone that would lead anyone to believe he was doping? His game is no where near has powerful as it was. His serve is 15 mph under the rest of the top 10, etc. Federer is just not doping. He wouldn't do that to himself or his image.

[wy2sl0]

USO 2010 is just another example of this BTW. 135 mph for one tournament he just happened to never win before? Maybe it was a little premature to say this before, however it is not looking good now.

[veroniquem]

Originally Posted by fedfan46

what reason would there be to silently ban Soderling?

None, excellent point. (It's not like Sod is a huge star of the game and they didn't attempt "coverup" for Gasquet who is rather more famous than Sod.) People just enjoy speculating. It's human nature I guess.