All eyes are now on Andy Murray...whose side will he be on???

[Mainad]

Originally Posted by zagor

Berdych has been a dangerous opponent for Fed ever since 2010 and while Murray may be Fed's pigeon in slam matches, Ferrer is his pigeon anywhere, anytime

Yes, but he was never going to get to play Ferrer, was he? We all knew Ferrer was never getting past Djokovic!

[Towser83]

Originally Posted by Mainad

Well, it's apparent Berdych has become a dangerous player for Fed NOW! Prior to this year's USO, he was 4-1 v Berdych in Slams and 11-4 overall. And as you point out, he would have then only had to play Murray, one of his favourite pigeons in Slam matches and then play Djoko whom he had already beaten at Wimbledon and should have beaten at the 2 previous USOs!

So we agree that Murray is useless? Ok cool. I suppose getting Ferrer was the harder semi final?

We all know that's not what you believe, but you jokingly concur with the troll point of view if it suits you. You know that my post calling murray useless what not serious, but you jokingly agree with me so you don't have to retract the statement about Fed's weak draw. Just like you get annoyed with anyone using wind as an excuse for Murray's US Open win, but then jokingly blame wind for his defeat in 2009 IW so that you don't actually have to give a serious opinon about whether wind is or isn't an excuse for losing.


Murray was the tougher draw, Federer got him in his half. You know this is what I mean, but you just avoid the actual point.

And you might remember that Federer was 2 sets to 0 down vs Berdych at the AO 2009. Since and including that match he's played him 3 times at slam, lost 2 and had to come back from 2 sets down in the other. The last time he had a comfortable slam match vs him was 2007.

[zagor]

Originally Posted by Mainad

Yes, but he was never going to get to play Ferrer, was he? We all knew Ferrer was never getting past Djokovic!

Well yes but I was comparing Ferrer to Murray regarding how difficult of a SF opponent they are for Fed, it's obvious that Ferrer is the weaker link here, both Fed and Novak would prefer him to Murray in any slam except maybe FO (for Novak, because Ferrer can trouble him on clay).

In short, as things stand right now the toughness of Fed's draw depends on whether he'll:

-Draw Berdych in QF
-Draw Murray in SF

Not on his opponents in the first 4 rounds, if he's in decent form he'll cruise (relatively speaking) regardless.

[zagor]

Originally Posted by Towser83

So we agree that Murray is useless? Ok cool. I suppose getting Ferrer was the harder semi final?

We all know that's not what you believe, but you jokingly concur with the troll point of view if it suits you. You know that my post calling murray useless what not serious, but you jokingly agree with me so you don't have to retract the statement about Fed's weak draw. Just like you get annoyed with anyone using wind as an excuse for Murray's US Open win, but then jokingly blame wind for his defeat in 2009 IW so that you don't actually have to give a serious opinon about whether wind is or isn't an excuse for losing.


Murray was the tougher draw, Federer got him in his half. You know this is what I mean, but you just avoid the actual point.

And you might remember that Federer was 2 sets to 0 down vs Berdych at the AO 2009. Since and including that match he's played him 3 times at slam, lost 2 and had to come back from 2 sets down in the other. The last time he had a comfortable slam match vs him was 2007.

Actually it was 2008 AO, was a pretty routine win.

[Flash O'Groove]

Del Potro is also a threat for Fed in a QF (actually he is a threat for everyone, but he did beat Fed back to back in Basel and WTF). He is also more consistent than Berdych, who could also be in a day off (altough he was solid both in 2011 and 2012). Tsonga did have good result in Australia too, but he isn't consistent here.

The happy one will have Tipsarevic in QF and Ferrer in SF. Final will be tough in any case.

[Mainad]

Originally Posted by Towser83

So we agree that Murray is useless? Ok cool. I suppose getting Ferrer was the harder semi final?

We all know that's not what you believe, but you jokingly concur with the troll point of view if it suits you. You know that my post calling murray useless what not serious, but you jokingly agree with me so you don't have to retract the statement about Fed's weak draw. Just like you get annoyed with anyone using wind as an excuse for Murray's US Open win, but then jokingly blame wind for his defeat in 2009 IW so that you don't actually have to give a serious opinon about whether wind is or isn't an excuse for losing.


Murray was the tougher draw, Federer got him in his half. You know this is what I mean, but you just avoid the actual point.

And you might remember that Federer was 2 sets to 0 down vs Berdych at the AO 2009. Since and including that match he's played him 3 times at slam, lost 2 and had to come back from 2 sets down in the other. The last time he had a comfortable slam match vs him was 2007.

Oh lighten up Towser. I credit you with being one of the few posters on here with a sense of humour and an ability to banter. Seems you're not in the mood for this one.

Anyway, joking apart, I genuinely don't think Federer had a particularly tough draw at this year's USO. The early rounds were indeed a joke but then that's pretty much the same for all the top seeds. The later rounds are usually always going to get tougher for everybody. Berdych may have proved a tricky player for Fed in recent years but he normally finds a way to get past him, 2010 Wimby being a rare exception. If anything, Berdych is an even trickier player for Murray to handle while it is an undeniable fact that Fed has been able to handle Murray successfully in all their previous Slam encounters and, as I said, he had already beaten Djokovic at Wimbledon and had a good record against him at the USO even if he did choke away chances to beat him in their last 2 encounters there. Beating him would, of course, have been tough but it was doable for him IMO.

[zagor]

Originally Posted by Flash O'Groove

Del Potro is also a threat for Fed in a QF (actually he is a threat for everyone, but he did beat Fed back to back in Basel and WTF). He is also more consistent than Berdych, who could also be in a day off (altough he was solid both in 2011 and 2012). Tsonga did have good result in Australia too, but he isn't consistent here.

The happy one will have Tipsarevic in QF and Ferrer in SF. Final will be tough in any case.

On AO surface Berdman is a far bigger threat than Delpo to Fed, that's not to say Delpo doesn't have a chance but I'd favour Fed in that potential match by a solid margin, not so against Berdman (whom I'd favour against Fed actually, should they meet in QF).

[zagor]

Originally Posted by Mainad

Oh lighten up Towser. I credit you with being one of the few posters on here with a sense of humour and an ability to banter. Seems you're not in the mood for this one.

Anyway, joking apart, I genuinely don't think Federer had a particularly tough draw at this year's USO. The early rounds were indeed a joke but then that's pretty much the same for all the top seeds. The later rounds are usually always going to get tougher for everybody. Berdych may have proved a tricky player for Fed in recent years but he normally finds a way to get past him, 2010 Wimby being a rare exception. If anything, Berdych is an even trickier player for Murray to handle while it is an undeniable fact that Fed has been able to handle Murray successfully in all their previous Slam encounters and, as I said, he had already beaten Djokovic at Wimbledon and had a good record against him at the USO even if he did choke away chances to beat him in their last 2 encounters there. Beating him would, of course, have been tough but it was doable for him IMO.

Come on now, what would have been a tougher QF & SF combo for Fed in 2012 USO?

Delpo, Tsonga or Janko certainly aren't tougher (or as tough actually) propositions for Fed in a slam QF and Murray is a far tougher potential SF opponent than Ferrer, David is Fed's ultimate pigeon on top of the fact that Murray is a plain better overall player.

[Hitman]

Originally Posted by zagor

On AO surface Berdman is a far bigger threat than Delpo to Fed, that's not to say Delpo doesn't have a chance but I'd favour Fed in that potential match by a solid margin, not so against Berdman (whom I'd favour against Fed actually, should they meet in QF).

This is exactly how I feel. Federer has good memories of facing Del Potro here, and I think this is the one place where the haunting memories of USO 09 don't really effect him. He feels very confident on this surface against Del Potro, the results show.

Berdych though has become a thorn, and Federer does get unhinged against him. He has ended Federer's semi streaks at both Wimbledon and USO already.

[zagor]

Originally Posted by Hitman

This is exactly how I feel. Federer has good memories of facing Del Potro here, and I think this is the one place where the haunting memories of USO 09 don't really effect him. He feels very confident on this surface against Del Potro, the results show.

Berdych though has become a thorn, and Federer does get unhinged against him. He has ended Federer's semi streaks at both Wimbledon and USO already.

Agree, last time Fed played against Berdman at AO, he was down 2-0 in sets and barely clawed his way back to victory, Berdych then backed up that with wins at Wimbledon and USO (along with wins in several masters, I can't remember now off the top of my head) but each time Fed faced Delpo at AO he beat him pretty easily, Delpo did beat Fed the last two times they played but both of those wins were indoors, a different ballgame compared to slow outdoor HC.

To put it in numbers, if they meet in AO QF I'd probably give Berdych 55-45 or even 60-40 odds to beat Fed while I'd give Fed 70-30 odds to beat Delpo (should they meet in QF obviously).

[Hitman]

Originally Posted by zagor

Agree, last time Fed played against Berdman at AO, he was down 2-0 in sets and barely clawed his way back to victory, Berdych then backed up that with wins at Wimbledon and USO (along with wins in several masters, I can't remember now off the top of my head) but each time Fed faced Delpo at AO he beat him pretty easily, Delpo did beat Fed the last two times they played but both of those wins were indoors, a different ballgame compared to slow outdoor HC.

To put it in numbers, if they meet in AO QF I'd probably give Berdych 55-45 or even 60-40 odds to beat Fed while I'd give Fed 70-30 odds to beat Delpo (should they meet in QF obviously).

On this surface, Federer can really exploit the limitations in Del Potro's movement, and really uses the surface as a weapon against him. I feel when they play anywhere else, Roger is more on edge, and thinks more about that USO 09 match more, which will always be with him. At AO, he seems to relax and is always trying to use that court to hurt to hurt Del Potro andpast results give him renewed confidence.

Regarding Berdych, they had a competitive match in Madrid also, which went the distance. A good win for Roger in the end. I agree with your odds.

[Towser83]

Originally Posted by Mainad

Oh lighten up Towser. I credit you with being one of the few posters on here with a sense of humour and an ability to banter. Seems you're not in the mood for this one.

Anyway, joking apart, I genuinely don't think Federer had a particularly tough draw at this year's USO. The early rounds were indeed a joke but then that's pretty much the same for all the top seeds. The later rounds are usually always going to get tougher for everybody. Berdych may have proved a tricky player for Fed in recent years but he normally finds a way to get past him, 2010 Wimby being a rare exception. If anything, Berdych is an even trickier player for Murray to handle while it is an undeniable fact that Fed has been able to handle Murray successfully in all their previous Slam encounters and, as I said, he had already beaten Djokovic at Wimbledon and had a good record against him at the USO even if he did choke away chances to beat him in their last 2 encounters there. Beating him would, of course, have been tough but it was doable for him IMO.

well I apologise for being too serious, must be the mood of today..

I don't think Berdych/Murray/Djokovic is an easy draw for Federer. Like I said at the AO in 2009 Berdych was 2 sets to 0 up on Federer. He then won the next slam meeting and gave Federer loads of trouble in 3 set matches as well, getting a few wins. There was plenty of evidence that Federer could lose to Berdych - his last comfortable win over him in a slam was 2008 (Zagor corrected me). And Berdych beat Fed in the olympics in 2004 after which Fed gave him a lot of praise, and it seems to me it's his consistancy that's the problem. when he's on he can geive Federer hell. You are right that he has given Murray lots of problems too, credit to Murray - he has turned this around this year. Not to make excuses but I feel in windy conditions Fed would have beaten Berdych easily as it stops Berdych from hitting to his maximum potential. Murray and Federer are better players than Berdych though and can adapt much beter.

If Federer had got through beating Berdych, Murray was going to be very confident after the olympic win, beating both Federer and Djokovic and as it turns out he was the man to beat at the USO.

[Xizel]

Keep Berdych and Delpo off Fed and it'll be OK.

[smoledman]

Originally Posted by Flash O'Groove

Del Potro is also a threat for Fed in a QF (actually he is a threat for everyone, but he did beat Fed back to back in Basel and WTF). He is also more consistent than Berdych, who could also be in a day off (altough he was solid both in 2011 and 2012). Tsonga did have good result in Australia too, but he isn't consistent here.

The happy one will have Tipsarevic in QF and Ferrer in SF. Final will be tough in any case.

This. People should pay attention to which quarter Del Potro lands.

[Steve0904]

Only thing I don't agree with in all this good debate (besides of course the relatively crazy assertion that Federer's 2012 USO draw wasn't tough) is zagor favouring Berdych over Fed however slightly. I know the history between Fed and Berdych, but I would never be able to favour Berdych over Fed at any slam, even now.