Nadal: 2 things are quite clear

[Agassifan]

1. People have always been wondering about Rafa's "injury" concerns. It had to be a combination of injury+confidence issues+gamesmanship. His most recent withdrawal confirms that confidence issues are definitely playing a huge role. Gamesmanship is also obvious from the ill-times MTOs, but I think confidence issues are bigger.

2. Djokovic has probably ruined his chance at GOAThood. Those 3 consecutive losses in slam finals really hurt his legacy and confidence. He will still certainly be the man to beat on clay for 2-3 more years, but I think he has lost the chance to pass Fed in slam count (and weeks at #1, etc).

BTW I think that this silent ban stuff is all nonsense. Athletes may dope or not dope, but a silent ban is impossible in this day and age.

[cc0509]

Originally Posted by Agassifan

1. People have always been wondering about Rafa's "injury" concerns. It had to be a combination of injury+confidence issues+gamesmanship. His most recent withdrawal confirms that confidence issues are definitely playing a huge role. Gamesmanship is also obvious from the ill-times MTOs, but I think confidence issues are bigger.

2. Djokovic has probably ruined his chance at GOAThood. Those 3 consecutive losses in slam finals really hurt his legacy and confidence. He will still certainly be the man to beat on clay for 2-3 more years, but I think he has lost the chance to pass Fed in slam count (and weeks at #1, etc).

BTW I think that this silent ban stuff is all nonsense. Athletes may dope or not dope, but a silent ban is impossible in this day and age.

I don't believe that at all. I don't think confidence and injury issues have anything to do with what is going on. Put Nadal on any court tomorrow and I would not bet against him.

[Mike Sams]

Originally Posted by cc0509

I don't believe that at all. I don't think confidence and injury issues have anything to do with what is going on. Put Nadal on any court tomorrow and I would not bet against him.

But he likely wouldn't bet on himself. That's the difference.

[Agassifan]

Originally Posted by Mike Sams

But he likely wouldn't bet on himself. That's the difference.

bingo........

[cc0509]

Originally Posted by Mike Sams

But he likely wouldn't bet on himself. That's the difference.

You are saying he does not know he is not as seriously injured as he is letting on? Okay, sure. I am saying I don't believe in the seriousness of his injury thus I don't believe he will be in bad shape when he returns.

[Amelie Mauresmo]

I definitely think the Wimbledon loss to Rosol destroyed Nadal's confidence and he doesn't seem to have much desire for the game anymore. The guy's young only 26, very wealthy he doesn't need to play tennis anymore he's won a ton of slams. I wonder if Nadal is going to end up like Borg and retire at a young age?

[Shangri La]

Originally Posted by Agassifan

1. People have always been wondering about Rafa's "injury" concerns. It had to be a combination of injury+confidence issues+gamesmanship. His most recent withdrawal confirms that confidence issues are definitely playing a huge role. Gamesmanship is also obvious from the ill-times MTOs, but I think confidence issues are bigger.

Nadal is a lot weaker, mentally and physically, than most people have given him credit for.

[Virginia]

Yes, and he is also a sissy. He carries on like a prima donna with PMT.

[veroniquem]

Nadal is already the clay GOAT, nothing that Novak or anyone else can do about that. And BTW, Nadal has won all 4 slams , something that Novak is still chasing after...
+ only 4 players have won slams in the double digits in open era. If that's not goathood, I don't know what is.

[Agassifan]

Originally Posted by veroniquem

Nadal is already the clay GOAT, nothing that Novak or anyone else can do about that. And BTW, Nadal has won all 4 slams , something that Novak is still chasing after...
+ only 4 players have won slams in the double digits in open era. If that's not goathood, I don't know what is.

I meant breaking into the Top 3 (or so). He surely is among the greatest to have played the game.

[smoledman]

Nadal is not the raging bull of 2005-2008 anymore.

[smoledman]

Originally Posted by veroniquem

Nadal is already the clay GOAT, nothing that Novak or anyone else can do about that. And BTW, Nadal has won all 4 slams , something that Novak is still chasing after...
+ only 4 players have won slams in the double digits in open era. If that's not goathood, I don't know what is.

Congrats Nadal is the clay GOAT replacing the previous clay GOAT(Borg, Vilas, whoever). Nobody really cares about surface GOAT, but Overall GOAT = Federer.

[veroniquem]

Originally Posted by smoledman

Congrats Nadal is the clay GOAT replacing the previous clay GOAT(Borg, Vilas, whoever). Nobody really cares about surface GOAT, but Overall GOAT = Federer.

Maybe, some people still think it's Laver. It's up for debate. Clay goat is not.

[smoledman]

Originally Posted by veroniquem

Maybe, some people still think it's Laver. It's up for debate. Clay goat is not.

Wow, so the overall GOAT debate is down to Laver or Federer. What more does Fed have to do? Win 20 slams?

[Tennis_Hands]

Originally Posted by veroniquem

Nadal is already the clay GOAT, nothing that Novak or anyone else can do about that. And BTW, Nadal has won all 4 slams , something that Novak is still chasing after...
+ only 4 players have won slams in the double digits in open era. If that's not goathood, I don't know what is.

Your poasts?

[monfed]

Originally Posted by veroniquem

Maybe, some people still think it's Laver. It's up for debate. Clay goat is not.

Yes it is. Ralph has basically 6 real RGs, and even if you consider his 7 RGs, some people consider Borg as the better clay courter,if not its a tie. Borg didn't have the luxury to moonball weak 1HBH like Ralph so he had it much much harder to dominate at RG.

Ralph's 2011 RG has a big star on it,a widely acknowledged fact. Look as much as I like Ralph I can't quite crown him the clay GOAT cause that would be injustice to Borg,sorry.

[cc0509]

Originally Posted by veroniquem

Maybe, some people still think it's Laver. It's up for debate. Clay goat is not.

You have to be kidding me. Nobody cares about surface GOAT, it is overall GOAT that matters. And there is a debate amongst some people with respect to clay goat, some still think there is a debate between Nadal and Borg. I personally think Nadal has slightly surpassed Borg now, but it is close.

For overall GOAT, I don't believe in the GOAT concept but Federer is the closest to that moniker for sure and no, there really is no debate at this point.

[smoledman]

Originally Posted by cc0509

You have to be kidding me. Nobody cares about surface GOAT, it is overall GOAT that matters. And there is a debate amongst some people with respect to clay goat, some still think there is a debate between Nadal and Borg. I personally think Nadal has slightly surpassed Borg now, but it is close.

For overall GOAT, I don't believe in the GOAT concept but Federer is the closest to that moniker for sure and no, there really is no debate at this point.

It's not just about overall achievements(titles won) but the style of play which is a genius never before seen. Fed has the full array of shots.

[cc0509]

Originally Posted by smoledman

It's not just about overall achievements(titles won) but the style of play which is a genius never before seen. Fed has the full array of shots.

Yes, but that is a whole separate issue to his achievements which leave the other players in the dust.

[Rjtennis]

A silent ban is complete nonsense. If he was caught using banned chemicals he would have an outright ban. I agree that with his injuries and the elevated play at the top of the game I'm sure he has lost a lot of confidence.