Michael Joyce rates Rios talent above Agassi and Sampras

[Gonzalito17]

Big Ted it was surprising to read that Bollettieri and a few other tennis insiders said Rios was a very hard worker. Rios presented the contradictary illusion that he was nonchalant and didn't care or feel like trying so hard. Guess that was all a clever deception by Rios. Which worked to some extent.

[big ted]

Originally Posted by Gonzalito17

Big Ted it was surprising to read that Bollettieri and a few other tennis insiders said Rios was a very hard worker. Rios presented the contradictary illusion that he was nonchalant and didn't care or feel like trying so hard. Guess that was all a clever deception by Rios. Which worked to some extent.

some players just have that personality like sampras and edberg, esp earlier in their careers. when they were winning, they looked so smooth like they werent even trying hard but when they were losing it still looked like they werent trying. anyway i think alot of it had to do with rios mental ability. his game was there but maybe lack of desire, nerves, etc... he could not even win his hometown tournament in chile once, that to me says he did not play his best under pressure and when expectations were on him. who on the other hand, champions like becker and sampras for example thrived and actually played better when the pressure was on

[Gonzalito17]

Great point Big Ted, Rios lost the final of the Chile ATP event four times - to players like David Sanchez, Julian Alonso, Hernan Gumy and Slava Dosedel. Clearly this is evidence that he struggled with pressure situations. Great point mate.

[Gonzalito17]

Chilean journalist comments on "Marcelo Rios: The Man We Barely Knew": Marcelo Ríos is an enigmatic character for we the Chileans. In one side, he's by far the most successful sportsman in Chile's history. No one before or after has reached the no. 1 in a professional sport (in Chile, only soccer, tennis, basket and boxing are professional sports) and no one helped more to bring new kids to tennis ...but Ríos (not even Fernando Gonzalez or Nicolas Massú) with his victories in the late 90's. I remember watching tennis on public tv, sometimes at early hours in the morning, and people celebrating every title. When he reached no.1, thousand of people went out to streets to celebrate. He started a new era in Chile's tennis and put it at a world level. That era is coming to its end, sadly, with the retirement of Gonzalez and the slow fall of Massu.

But, on the other side, his personality is far from causing the same unanimity. And I think your book is a great picture of that: Ríos personality caused different reactions in every person.

The book is also a massive database of facts, anecdotes (the KO on a Miami restaurant!!) and points of view about Rios. There's many stories unknown in Chile, but in some point none of them surprising: we know we can expect everything from Marcelo. And that is what, I think, makes his personality so unique.

The rich collection of opinions makes a clear picture of Marcelo. That is what makes the book so necessary for every tennis fan.

Sebastián Carrizo Acevedo
Periodista Deportes La Tercera

[matchmaker]

Ahhh, Rios... indeed a persona who triggers very antagonistic reactions in people. One thing is for sure, he hit some of the most amazing points you will ever see on a tennis court. In that sense I feel he is truly the most talented, but tennis is not about playing beautiful points, it is about winning. And Rios was not very strong at that, at least mentally.

[hoodjem]

Michael Joyce rates Rios talent above Agassi and Sampras

This is easy to do. "Talent" is an abstraction, an unknown.

One can only have impressions or opinions of it, and one cannot be proven wrong, because when talking about "talent" one is not talking about objective, measurable achievements.

I prefer achievements.

[ClairHarmony]

Originally Posted by hoodjem

Michael Joyce rates Rios talent above Agassi and Sampras

This is easy to do. "Talent" is an abstraction, an unknown.

One can only have impressions or opinions of it, and one cannot be proven wrong, because when talking about "talent" one is not talking about objective, measurable achievements.

I prefer achievements.

Mental toughness is abstract; not a talent, that killers make concrete.*

Oh, shining star, I think that's what you're trying to say. I prefer human beings to achievement, anything else just gets repetitive after awhile. So big fart in the sky, Roger Federer won one or two more slams...duh, duh, duh, I'm not hearing it...than Sergi Bruguera. All that can be done, to keep a turnover P'zone alive. Look at the recent success of Matte Barnes...I prefer to be keepin' it real, tryin' to maximize the individual than harp on the distance of ever changin' persuasions. Talent is real, for his gen, he did much with his height; but like my other idol in life, not quite all the way applied. Know your type tendencies, or else Matte Barnes is still a big fat ZERO. That's a definitive loser mentatlity if you ask me, to prefer killer austeres in concrete to part-Italian, Cinderfellon stories, made in lemonade, yo? It's time to get *charged up,* inside; because when people give up on people, former world #'s and be smug like they was virtually nothing, it makes me wanna ball up and cray baby, extinguish, right back where I belong, a regular ol' peon in a pod, reflective, contemplating fairy tale *'s in the sky. Rios was a "gift" to many (not me, never was my cup o' tea, didn't really quite see it), but still a gift. There's a difference in trying to take that away from somones, if it made you feel better inside. #1 in the whole entire world at that height in this day and age is not abstract...it's the *rest,* all that unrest, that he did not put to rest. But the super nova in the hands was always there. Two different directives, entirely. It's not easy to do. Even once, #1 in the world, it's not to be brushed off w. shimmering salt in the wound, so he failed. That does not make his achievement of #1 planetary, any more human. Like you & me, hade he learned to appreciate more, maybe, may be...before it's really too late.

[hoodjem]

Originally Posted by ClairHarmony

Mental toughness is abstract; not a talent, that killers make concrete.*

Oh, shining star, I think that's what you're trying to say. I prefer human beings to achievement, anything else just gets repetitive after awhile. So big fart in the sky, Roger Federer won one or two more slams...duh, duh, duh, I'm not hearing it...than Sergi Bruguera. All that can be done, to keep a turnover P'zone alive. Look at the recent success of Matte Barnes...I prefer to be keepin' it real, tryin' to maximize the individual than harp on the distance of ever changin' persuasions. Talent is real, for his gen, he did much with his height; but like my other idol in life, not quite all the way applied. Know your type tendencies, or else Matte Barnes is still a big fat ZERO. That's a definitive loser mentatlity if you ask me, to prefer killer austeres in concrete to part-Italian, Cinderfellon stories, made in lemonade, yo? It's time to get *charged up,* inside; because when people give up on people, former world #'s and be smug like they was virtually nothing, it makes me wanna ball up and cray baby, extinguish, right back where I belong, a regular ol' peon in a pod, reflective, contemplating fairy tale *'s in the sky. Rios was a "gift" to many (not me, never was my cup o' tea, didn't really quite see it), but still a gift. There's a difference in trying to take that away from somones, if it made you feel better inside. #1 in the whole entire world at that height in this day and age is not abstract...it's the *rest,* all that unrest, that he did not put to rest. But the super nova in the hands was always there. Two different directives, entirely. It's not easy to do. Even once, #1 in the world, it's not to be brushed off w. shimmering salt in the wound, so he failed. That does not make his achievement of #1 planetary, any more human. Like you & me, hade he learned to appreciate more, maybe, may be...before it's really too late.

Is English your first language?

[cristiano]

Anyway Joyce played all three players just twice. And versus Agassi he barely won a couple of games , more or less.

Anyway Rios was very talented. Also other players can be judged more talented than the overall better two. Korda, for example. Maybe not, maybe yes, not a big deal.

But I do not think that playing twice with them will tell you more than watching then playing 500 matches.

[sundaypunch]

Originally Posted by hoodjem

Is English your first language?

ClairHarmony is the Marcelo Rios of TW.

[Gonzalito17]

Originally Posted by hoodjem

Michael Joyce rates Rios talent above Agassi and Sampras

This is easy to do. "Talent" is an abstraction, an unknown.

One can only have impressions or opinions of it, and one cannot be proven wrong, because when talking about "talent" one is not talking about objective, measurable achievements.

I prefer achievements.

Hoodjem, I hear you but consider that it might actually be the more difficult achievement to become #1. There are four chances for all the players to win a major each year, but how many players have a good chance to become 'the #1 BEST player in the world'? #1 is an amazing achievement. I think Rios should be considered for the Hall of Fame someday too. He was a special player.

[Gonzalito17]

Originally Posted by ClairHarmony

Mental toughness is abstract; not a talent, that killers make concrete.*

Oh, shining star, I think that's what you're trying to say. I prefer human beings to achievement, anything else just gets repetitive after awhile. So big fart in the sky, Roger Federer won one or two more slams...duh, duh, duh, I'm not hearing it...than Sergi Bruguera. All that can be done, to keep a turnover P'zone alive. Look at the recent success of Matte Barnes...I prefer to be keepin' it real, tryin' to maximize the individual than harp on the distance of ever changin' persuasions. Talent is real, for his gen, he did much with his height; but like my other idol in life, not quite all the way applied. Know your type tendencies, or else Matte Barnes is still a big fat ZERO. That's a definitive loser mentatlity if you ask me, to prefer killer austeres in concrete to part-Italian, Cinderfellon stories, made in lemonade, yo? It's time to get *charged up,* inside; because when people give up on people, former world #'s and be smug like they was virtually nothing, it makes me wanna ball up and cray baby, extinguish, right back where I belong, a regular ol' peon in a pod, reflective, contemplating fairy tale *'s in the sky. Rios was a "gift" to many (not me, never was my cup o' tea, didn't really quite see it), but still a gift. There's a difference in trying to take that away from somones, if it made you feel better inside. #1 in the whole entire world at that height in this day and age is not abstract...it's the *rest,* all that unrest, that he did not put to rest. But the super nova in the hands was always there. Two different directives, entirely. It's not easy to do. Even once, #1 in the world, it's not to be brushed off w. shimmering salt in the wound, so he failed. That does not make his achievement of #1 planetary, any more human. Like you & me, hade he learned to appreciate more, maybe, may be...before it's really too late.

Clairharmony = intriguing eccentric individual. Can you please answer these questions?
Best tennis moment:
Favorite players to watch:
Racquet you play with:
Most memorable matches:
Favorite tennis books:
How did you start playing tennis:
Shoes you play in:

THANKS!

[Gonzalito17]

Originally Posted by sundaypunch

ClairHarmony is the Marcelo Rios of TW.

SP or a morph of Mansour Bahrami Andrew Ilie and a touch of Charles Manson// just kidding bro!

[Gonzalito17]

Originally Posted by cristiano

Anyway Joyce played all three players just twice. And versus Agassi he barely won a couple of games , more or less.

Anyway Rios was very talented. Also other players can be judged more talented than the overall better two. Korda, for example. Maybe not, maybe yes, not a big deal.

But I do not think that playing twice with them will tell you more than watching then playing 500 matches.

Exactly Cristiano, Rios was so talented he actually invented a new shot for tennis. How many players have done that? Agassi and Sampras played tennis more like machines while Rios was an artist.

Joyce's perspective and opinions about Rios are as credible and valuable as any. And he's not the only player to suggest Rios was the most talented, also in the book Florent Serra said while he was playing Rios he was actually trying to watch him play at the same time because he was so impressed by his talent. I doubt anyone ever said that about Agassi or Sampras. And Serra played Rios in the very last pro event he ever played.

[accidental]

I get the feeling that when players make statements like this, theres always some kind of back story thats being left out.

I doubt Joyce played Rios more than he played Agassi and Sampras, but I bet he went into the matches with those guys expecting perfection and merely got both playing at their average, yet great level. And then maybe when he played Rios, Rios was playing out of his mind every time.

Similar to how Sampras was so impressed by Brugera.

[Gonzalito17]

Well, Joyce also practiced a lot with Rios. I would say Agassi, Sampras and Rios all thought they were superior to Joyce and each beat him with their B games and B level intensity. I don't see why any of them would be ultra motivated to play Joyce, with all due respect to Joyce. Clearly, the talent of Rios impressed Joyce distinctly more.

Sampras had his troubles with certain players, like Bruguera, Ferreira, Korda, Santoro, Roddick, Haas. A lot of the top players have lesser players who for whatever reasons seem to play them much tougher than one would expect.