Tennis: the sport for a lifetime?

[Mick3391]

Originally Posted by danix

Notice the question mark.
Feeling a little pissed off and sorry for myself right now.
I've been playing since roughly the age of 12.
Now, at age 39, I've been through:
- knee scoping. they found cartilage loss, and did microfractures to help
- shoulder scoping. Debur, debride, Mumford. Worked great for a few months and then a different part of the shoulder started hurting. We won't talk about the left shoulder I tore when recovering from surgery on the right side due to a bicycle accident...

Now my knee is acting up again, and I know the next step is an ACI procedure (autologous cartilege injection, aka Carticel). I'm willing to deal with the 6 months of rehab, but according to their site, patients who have it, have a 49% rate of going under the knife again.

I have to start asking myself - is it time to give up competitive tennis? I can't imagine not playing tennis with the mindset that I want to win, and improve, playing tournaments, leagues, whatever. I see 60, 70, 85 year old men and women playing, and I want that to be me.

Obviously I have to have some conversations with my ortho, but if you've been through this, or are going through it, feel free to chime in.

Wow, I've been playing since 12 and I'm 38, cooincidence. I have never had the horrible injuries you've had, but this year it's been one thing after another.

Heh, you can't play if you can't move, so what is the question? I would suggest teaching if you have kids, or maybe at a school, it's still fun. Or play at a lower level, you can still win without killing yourself.

My older brother has had one knee replaced, and now another.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by tlm

How about high level of intensity then? The exact level of talent is not that important, even good 3.5 players need to be able to avoid injuries as they get older. The subject is about playing tennis for a lifetime.

Many people I know till the 4.5 level have not had any injuries, in spite of playing 3 times a week and not doing any exercise other than stretching. They range in age from 35 to 70.

[tlm]

Originally Posted by sureshs

Many people I know till the 4.5 level have not had any injuries, in spite of playing 3 times a week and not doing any exercise other than stretching. They range in age from 35 to 70.

The level does not have near as much to do with it as opposed to age and being out of shape. Actually many of the higher level players play more efficient with big serves and net games that keep the points shorter, as opposed to good 3.5 - 4.0 players that play a lot of long grinding points.

How many of these older players that you know play singles 3 times a week? I know a lot of those type of players to but they play 99% doubles, they can not move good enough for singles anymore and are not in good enough shape.

[tlm]

Originally Posted by SteveI

Great thread. I can relate to the OP and many of the posts. The bottom line for me is to understand I have only so many court hours in my body and to use them wisely. Each year I go to a few of our local tennis tourneys to mostly watch my players, students and tennis pals compete. Every year I am asked "how come I am not in the draws?" Tourney tennis beats the heck out of your body. I make my living being on my feet and I am mostly self employed. I play hard when I can and rest when it makes sense. I have been playing the sport since I was 12...many years ago. I have had one knee scoped and not looking to have the other one done anytime soon. My hips are fine. I changed my game from get everything back to..1st strike tennis. I will not play more than three times a week.. and never back to back days. I just say no...while I walk, work out or do something to get my activity each day.. tennis is limited so I can continue to play and have fun doing it. Good luck everyone...

If you are talking about tournaments were you have to play more than once a day or real tough matches back to back you are smart in not participating. That is pushing it for anyone let alone older players.

Another problem is the amount of time one has to work out, play tennis, rest and recover. Many people do not have the time it takes to stay in shape and play tennis. I think your idea of playing every other day is a good one, but I have played my way into shape by playing a lot. But again I usually will only play a match or 2 a week and the other days are practice.

[ollinger]

People delude themselves into thinking that being in shape has something to do with preventing wear and tear injury. For the most part, it does not. The OP has cartilage damage/loss in his knee that apparently is now worse. That doesn't happen because someone is not in sufficiently good shape. It happens because of overuse, in conjunction with a likely genetic predisposition. Getting into the best shape imaginable does not prevent those sort of severe physical problems.

[tlm]

Originally Posted by ollinger

People delude themselves into thinking that being in shape has something to do with preventing wear and tear injury. For the most part, it does not. The OP has cartilage damage/loss in his knee that apparently is now worse. That doesn't happen because someone is not in sufficiently good shape. It happens because of overuse, in conjunction with a likely genetic predisposition. Getting into the best shape imaginable does not prevent those sort of severe physical problems.

There is some truth to what you are saying, however overuse with lack of muscle strength, imbalance in muscle strength and bad posture can definitely make this wear come much sooner than it should. The more even strength your muscles have the less strain there is to the joints, the muscles take more of the shock instead of your joints.

I do agree that a player could be in great shape aerobically and still have joint problems, actually a lot of the runner types are in great shape but have worn their joints out from all the running and do little if any weight training. My point is strength training not just being in good shape, there is a difference a person could be very fit aerobically and thin but still have problems because of lack of strength and muscle imbalance.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by tlm

The level does not have near as much to do with it as opposed to age and being out of shape. Actually many of the higher level players play more efficient with big serves and net games that keep the points shorter, as opposed to good 3.5 - 4.0 players that play a lot of long grinding points.

How many of these older players that you know play singles 3 times a week? I know a lot of those type of players to but they play 99% doubles, they can not move good enough for singles anymore and are not in good enough shape.

I myself play 4.0 singles once or twice and 4.0 doubles once or twice a week, totally around 6 hours a week on the average. The only exercise I do is 15 minutes of stretching every day, and using the stairs at work. I am afraid of ruining my knees with extra exercise, like running. I figure that I am running during tennis, so why run more? I have never been injured, except once when I had TE when I was learning with bad technique, and once when I mistakenly switched to a demo racket in the middle of a session. Nothing that has kept me out for more than a day.

[tlm]

Originally Posted by sureshs

I myself play 4.0 singles once or twice and 4.0 doubles once or twice a week, totally around 6 hours a week on the average. The only exercise I do is 15 minutes of stretching every day, and using the stairs at work. I am afraid of ruining my knees with extra exercise, like running. I figure that I am running during tennis, so why run more? I have never been injured, except once when I had TE when I was learning with bad technique, and once when I mistakenly switched to a demo racket in the middle of a session. Nothing that has kept me out for more than a day.

Thats good hopefully you can keep it up. How old are you?
I agree that the running on off days could be to much wear and tear, I do not advise running. I am talking about squats, lunges and calf raises.

A lot of times I will train my legs before I play tennis instead of the next day so they get time to recover. My point is strength training not aerobic training is the key to injury prevention.

[SteveI]

Originally Posted by tlm

If you are talking about tournaments were you have to play more than once a day or real tough matches back to back you are smart in not participating. That is pushing it for anyone let alone older players.

Another problem is the amount of time one has to work out, play tennis, rest and recover. Many people do not have the time it takes to stay in shape and play tennis. I think your idea of playing every other day is a good one, but I have played my way into shape by playing a lot. But again I usually will only play a match or 2 a week and the other days are practice.

Most of these events require you play more than once a day.. some you have to play over a 4 day weekend. It is not a problem to tell yourself... just take it easy and have fun and compete within reason. Once the bells rings, you will do what you have to do to get balls back and win points. You might not feel the pain while in action because you are amped up. It does come down to the fact that tennis, basketball, volleyball and other court sports just rip your body apart by the very nature of the movements required to compete.

Biking, swimming.. etc are much easier on ones body since the motions are pretty much straight ahead.

As the Great Ollie has posted...being in great shape does not save you. It is the miles and the time.. that causes the wear and tear. Being in perfect condition of course will help and give you more court hours. Also a family history of joint issues will not be overcome with techique and conditioning.

Like anything else, you need to be moderate and use common sense.. ie listen to you body.. eat right and rest. You need time to recover to play another day. I have so many friends younger than me that have left the sport not following single common sense. Happy Hoildays!

[tlm]

Originally Posted by SteveI

Most of these events require you play more than once a day.. some you have to play over a 4 day weekend. It is not a problem to tell yourself... just take it easy and have fun and compete within reason. Once the bells rings, you will do what you have to do to get balls back and win points. You might not feel the pain while in action because you are amped up. It does come down to the fact that tennis, basketball, volleyball and other court sports just rip your body apart by the very nature of the movements required to compete.

Biking, swimming.. etc are much easier on ones body since the motions are pretty much straight ahead.

As the Great Ollie has posted...being in great shape does not save you. It is the miles and the time.. that causes the wear and tear. Being in perfect condition of course will help and give you more court hours. Also a family history of joint issues will not be overcome with techique and conditioning.

Like anything else, you need to be moderate and use common sense.. ie listen to you body.. eat right and rest. You need time to recover to play another day. I have so many friends younger than me that have left the sport not following single common sense. Happy Hoildays!

You make some real good points, and I agree to an extent that it is the miles and time that takes its toll. I have played 3 matches in a row on consecutive days and gotten away with it but that is rare and I try to avoid this because that is pushing it to much. My point is the more structurally sound you are the more stress you can take.

[drak]

Originally Posted by danix

Thanks. I'm a 4.0, could probably be a 4.5 if my body cooperated, but oh well.
ab70 - not really sure. It's definitely muscular, the mumford was just to give more clearance I think. They found little or no tearing at the time, and I rehabbed pretty quickly.

The knee is giving me the most concern at the moment. ACI is described as a pretty painful procedure with a 6-8 week non-weight-bearing period plus 3-8 months recovery time. And with a sub 50% success rate?

I'd try a stem cell/PRP shot fisrt, this is new but they are reporting some good successes. There are not that many places that do it yet in the U.S. but Regenex centers are one. The use what they adipose stem cells - from your own body fat. It can be costly and insurance does not cover, Surprisingly I found a local guy who does them for $1750 )that's cheap I think), I don't need one yet but at 57 with 3 previous knee surgeries I may do them in a year so for "preventative" maintenance.

Here's a couple links

http://www.bodyandsoul.com.au/health...ic+knees,18265

http://www.bizjournals.com/prnewswir.../04/03/PH81036

http://centerforintegratedmed.com/st...row-injection/

[danix]

Thanks drak, I'll explore those links. I don't think PRP is viable for cartilage loss, but it works in some cases for muscular issues like plantar fascitis and tennis elbow.

Dr wants to go in and poke around based on MRI. I'm going to get a second opinion as he couldn't tell me much from looking at it besides there were some issues. There's also a "weird" doctor in SF that does some stem cell stuff, I might check that out.
See:
http://www.stoneclinic.com/articular...ll-paste-graft

[LeeD]

Process of living is to be conceieved, born, grow, mature, get past maturity, decline, and die.
It's natural.
Decline is in the physical. Your mental works for another 30 years, so use it, compensate, adjust, to your declining years, which for most, starts around 35.
So, at 64, you play old fart's tennis. So what? You ARE an old fart.
That's life, you can't fake it.
Injuries are a part of life, and what separates you from IvanLendl. Accept it, you have no choice.

[mikeler]

Originally Posted by LeeD

Process of living is to be conceieved, born, grow, mature, get past maturity, decline, and die.
It's natural.
Decline is in the physical. Your mental works for another 30 years, so use it, compensate, adjust, to your declining years, which for most, starts around 35.
So, at 64, you play old fart's tennis. So what? You ARE an old fart.
That's life, you can't fake it.
Injuries are a part of life, and what separates you from IvanLendl. Accept it, you have no choice.

35 is when I started getting nagging injuries much more often than before.

[drak]

Originally Posted by mikeler

35 is when I started getting nagging injuries much more often than before.

It was about 40 or so for me and then on and off for the next 17 years, 3 minor scopes on the knees, a fill rotator cuff repair and lots of modest back, achilles and hammy issues. I am at the point where if I soon can't play without constant issues I'll probably hang it up, too many other fun things to do that don't cause me anywhere near the issues tennis does. Rehab gets old!

[tlm]

Originally Posted by LeeD

Process of living is to be conceieved, born, grow, mature, get past maturity, decline, and die.
It's natural.
Decline is in the physical. Your mental works for another 30 years, so use it, compensate, adjust, to your declining years, which for most, starts around 35.
So, at 64, you play old fart's tennis. So what? You ARE an old fart.
That's life, you can't fake it.
Injuries are a part of life, and what separates you from IvanLendl. Accept it, you have no choice.

This is pretty much the cycle of life, good points LeeD. I don't agree with much declining starting at 35 though. To me that is awfully young and if a player takes care of himself should still be close to their prime.

[mikeler]

Originally Posted by tlm

This is pretty much the cycle of life, good points LeeD. I don't agree with much declining starting at 35 though. To me that is awfully young and if a player takes care of himself should still be close to their prime.

How should a player "take care of himself"?

[tlm]

Originally Posted by mikeler

How should a player "take care of himself"?

By staying in shape and staying structurally sound through weight training.

[TripleB]

Sorry to hear that!!

I had my microfracture surgery 5.5 weeks ago (hopefully start putting weight on my left leg next Monday). Doc said once he got in there it was a lot worse than he thought...planed on 'tapping' 4 holes in my bone but ended up putting 7.

I've played tennis hard for 40 years (run everything down was always my motto). Avoided doubles because I didn't get a chance to run after everything and I had to think too much.

Doc says I shouldn't ever play tennis again (at first he said I could play doubles but now he advises against that).

Now I'm left searching for something to fill that competitive instinct. He advised cycling, which isn't bad, but I'm thinking table tennis.

Like you I expected to be out there when I was 75 beating 45 year olds in singles.

It's a tough pill to swallow...I feel your pain.

TripleB

[drak]

Originally Posted by danix

Thanks drak, I'll explore those links. I don't think PRP is viable for cartilage loss, but it works in some cases for muscular issues like plantar fascitis and tennis elbow.

Dr wants to go in and poke around based on MRI. I'm going to get a second opinion as he couldn't tell me much from looking at it besides there were some issues. There's also a "weird" doctor in SF that does some stem cell stuff, I might check that out.
See:
http://www.stoneclinic.com/articular...ll-paste-graft

what I am talking about is PRP COMBINED with your own STEM CELLS, and they have been getting "some" cartilage regeneration with that combo, just thought it might be worth a try before trying more severe treatments