Red clay courts in America

[db10s]

Originally Posted by TennisCoachFLA

The Coral Springs place use to be all red clay. The public complained it stained their socks and shoes so they took out all but one of them.

There are 2 red clay courts at Lakewood Ranch Tennis Center outside of Sarasota. When we lived there we could play on them anytime we wanted. Everyone else played on the Har Trus, same deal, they said they stained their footwear too much!

Very true about the Har Trus. Most of them are very thin coatings and dry. They don't play anything like red clay.

I played a tournament there (Coral Springs)... They took all of them out...

I think there are some at Crandon Park.

I was in the middle of nowhere in NH, near Mt. Washington, and there was one REAL red clay court on the side of the road. It was perfectly manicured, the month was September... And I was wearing a suit... BUT, I had all of my stuff in the trunk, and absolutely nobody to hit with .... I was too stupid to not mark on a GPS where I was... I've searched on Google Earth for hours every once in a while... Still haven't found it.

[TCF]

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[widmerpool]

Originally Posted by db10s

I was in the middle of nowhere in NH, near Mt. Washington, and there was one REAL red clay court on the side of the road. It was perfectly manicured, the month was September... And I was wearing a suit... BUT, I had all of my stuff in the trunk, and absolutely nobody to hit with .... I was too stupid to not mark on a GPS where I was... I've searched on Google Earth for hours every once in a while... Still haven't found it.

Maybe it's the Brigadoon of clay courts.

[Herdsman76]

I just read the article and it was interesting to see that Horseshoe Bay Resort in Horseshoe Bay, Texas (Northwest of Austin) was not mentioned. They have 6 red clay courts and their clay is imported according to the tennis pros there. Because they have 3 adult tournaments a year there, I get to play on the red stuff on a regular basis. They did say the courts are very hard to maintain but what makes it easier is that they keep them hydrated using an underground irrigation systen. With the courts being hydrated all the time, sliding isn't as smooth as a dry court...

[barringer97]

Grew up on Red Clay, just went back to my old club and noticed they moved it to Har-Tru...bummer.

[db10s]

Originally Posted by TCF

http://brettonwoods.com/activities/m...ennis_overview

Mount Washington Resort has red clay.

But it was one court on the side of the road... I've probably spent 10 hours google earth searching.... BTW I believe it is somewhere between Andover, NH and Pomfret, CT... But I'm almost positive it was in NH.

And they clay color was like at the FO. That stuff in the picture looks like dried up and crushed turds.

[TCF]

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[dannythomas]

I do think this surface thing is a bit overplayed in significance. To win the French Open it is a huge advantage if you hit with heavy top spin. You can learn that on clay of every color. There are mot many of the top US players male or female who do that and would they do it more if they trained on red clay instead of green ? I don't think so. It is down to technique.
Similarly all the other surfaces have been slowed down at grand slam level which is why players like Nadal have had success in them. Yes they are still a little faster than clay and they suit flat hitters better, but it doesn't necessarily follow that kids who train on hard courts will have a big advantage over the European players if they get to play in the US Open.
I doubt whether Venus Williams or Pete Sampras ever played on grass as kids but it was their style of play not grass court experience as kids that was more important.

[TCF]

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[t135]

Originally Posted by BMC9670

From what I've learned at our club, the initial cost of installation is higher for Har-Tru, but ongoing costs are actually lower with proper maintenance, which really isn't hard. As I said, many of the community swim and racket clubs here in the east have them and membership fees to these places are not high - no rich country club folks here, but middle-class suburbanites.

For a public park, hard courts are just more convenient - lower upfront costs and resurface and replace nets every few years as needed (or when they literally fall apart as we've all seen). No regular maintenance needed. I don't think I've seen "public" Har-Tru courts.

Columbus GA has a huge public clay court facility. Atlanta GA's Bitsy Grant public tennis center is still 50% clay. And sandy springs tennis center in metro Atlanta has a couple clay courts. HIT Atlanta is also public with two clay courts.

[t135]

Originally Posted by TCF

danny, the red clay is totally different than Har Tru. Red clay makes your legs burn, red clay makes the balls heavy. Its the mental and physical toughness developed from kids playing interclubs against grown men, on red clay, week after week. Playing match after match with your legs burning and lifting heavy balls over and over again develops a level of toughness.

Its like when you hear of NFL legends who trained by running in sand.

The advantage they would have at the French and any other clays is only a small part of it. The rest is the toughness required to train and play tournaments on the red clay as juniors.

Its not the only factor. But if you had 2 equally talented kids, one raised on hards and one raised on red clay, I would bet on the red clay guy.

Very well said. You're a cool guy.

[mikeler]

Originally Posted by TCF

danny, the red clay is totally different than Har Tru. Red clay makes your legs burn, red clay makes the balls heavy. Its the mental and physical toughness developed from kids playing interclubs against grown men, on red clay, week after week. Playing match after match with your legs burning and lifting heavy balls over and over again develops a level of toughness.

Its like when you hear of NFL legends who trained by running in sand.

The advantage they would have at the French and any other clays is only a small part of it. The rest is the toughness required to train and play tournaments on the red clay as juniors.

Its not the only factor. But if you had 2 equally talented kids, one raised on hards and one raised on red clay, I would bet on the red clay guy.

I played my first and only match on red clay in Germany this past summer. I've been playing almost all my matches on Har-Tru the last 5 years or so. The red clay is SOOOOOOO much slower than Har-Tru. The difference between the speed of a hard court and Har-Tru is not nearly as big as the difference between red clay and Har-Tru.

[ga tennis]

I cant wait till June. My daughters academy is going to play tournaments in southern France on the red dirt for three weeks.

[BMC9670]

iTUSA Academy just opened a new facility near Phoenix and my son and I got to be among the first to play on their red clay. They have red, HarTru, hard, and a grass court to be completed in the spring.

We are no strangers to red clay as we often play in Germany in the summers while visiting family. Also played a lot of HarTru when we recently lived back east. Red is certainly stickier than HT, which does make the balls heavy, but I've played courts on both surfaces that are prepared very differently. iTUSA's red clay, for example, has less "surface" than those I've played in Germany - almost as if there is a hard court under it and some clay on top. I think they are still working on the court. The German courts are thicker and softer. The HT at our club near Philly had a lot of surface and was irrigated from underneath, so it was always moist and thick as opposed to some HT that gets watered twice a day by hand and plays dry and fast. Just an obvious observation that court build and prep makes a significant difference in how they play.

Oh, and red clay stains everything!

[maggmaster]

We have a facility in Cleveland with 3 indoor red clay courts and one with 1 court. I am going to play the Open at the 3 court venue just for the experience of the red clay.

[Chemist]

Originally Posted by BMC9670

iTUSA Academy just opened a new facility near Phoenix and my son and I got to be among the first to play on their red clay. They have red, HarTru, hard, and a grass court to be completed in the spring.

We are no strangers to red clay as we often play in Germany in the summers while visiting family. Also played a lot of HarTru when we recently lived back east. Red is certainly stickier than HT, which does make the balls heavy, but I've played courts on both surfaces that are prepared very differently. iTUSA's red clay, for example, has less "surface" than those I've played in Germany - almost as if there is a hard court under it and some clay on top. I think they are still working on the court. The German courts are thicker and softer. The HT at our club near Philly had a lot of surface and was irrigated from underneath, so it was always moist and thick as opposed to some HT that gets watered twice a day by hand and plays dry and fast. Just an obvious observation that court build and prep makes a significant difference in how they play.

Oh, and red clay stains everything!

My son participated in a Middle States training session on red courts at the Sports Club of South Jersey several years ago. However, the Google map no longer shows these courts. The club has not been hosting tournaments for a few years and it may be closed. Yes, it was very tough to get rid of the red dirt on his shoes and shirts.

[mikeler]

Originally Posted by BMC9670

iTUSA Academy just opened a new facility near Phoenix and my son and I got to be among the first to play on their red clay. They have red, HarTru, hard, and a grass court to be completed in the spring.

We are no strangers to red clay as we often play in Germany in the summers while visiting family. Also played a lot of HarTru when we recently lived back east. Red is certainly stickier than HT, which does make the balls heavy, but I've played courts on both surfaces that are prepared very differently. iTUSA's red clay, for example, has less "surface" than those I've played in Germany - almost as if there is a hard court under it and some clay on top. I think they are still working on the court. The German courts are thicker and softer. The HT at our club near Philly had a lot of surface and was irrigated from underneath, so it was always moist and thick as opposed to some HT that gets watered twice a day by hand and plays dry and fast. Just an obvious observation that court build and prep makes a significant difference in how they play.

Oh, and red clay stains everything!

As for how the clay is taken care of, I agree that has a huge effect on how it plays. The moisture content being the most important aspect but the thickness of the clay also has an effect like you say. There is a swanky private Har-Tru facility that I've played at a few times. It has so much more clay than where I normally play and it is quite a bit slower.

It kind of ticked me off in Germany. Here we were playing with a $10 can of balls and they are doing above ground watering on the court next to us!

That red clay does stain your shoes and socks. It was neat when I played and looked in the corner of the courts and a pile of bricks was there. I had forgotten what I was playing on was really crushed brick.

[t135]

Almost forgot about the gulf shores tennis club in gulf shores Alabama with 4 indoor European red clay courts. I believe it's semi private.

[NineMileSkid]

Originally Posted by ClarkC

Just saw this article with a listing. I wonder if anyone here is familiar with these courts, and how expensive it is to play on the red clay.

We visited my wife's sister and husband when the rented a home by the lake at the Maryland club listed in this artice. The guy running the place charged us $10 (total) to play as long as we wanted. Had the place to ourselves.

[vsbabolat]

Originally Posted by t135

Almost forgot about the gulf shores tennis club in gulf shores Alabama with 4 indoor European red clay courts. I believe it's semi private.

http://www.gulfcoasttennisclub.com