What can be done to reduce the cheating?

[NC_Parent]

VIDEO.

Most parents have iPhones these days.

Just record the bad behavior and send to your section.

If they have video proof they may be able to take corrective action against the over the top parents and/or player.


Still though, kids do need to learn to deal with these situations as they are occuring so they can finish and win matches. Confidence can go a long way( ie, let the parent coach from the stands..I'll still win ! )

[Chemist]

Every match including doubles and back draws at Kalamazoo has a chair umpire. Cheating, bad behavior or parents' talking in foreign language would not be tolerated. Clay super national for B16 was pretty bad with officiation this year. Saw one player walked out of the court to look for an umpire and it took him more than 5 mins to get one.

Parents may be mostly responsive for kids' cheating. Ever heard parents ask their kids to cheat back and kids use "cheating back" as an excuse for making bad calls? Witnessed a parent yelling at their kids for not calling a ball out during a match? How about parents cheering for opponent's errors and/or cheering for his kid's winning point so loud that can be heard miles away to mess up that poor kid's mental? How about parents arguing that foot fault is not a fault and encouraging his kid to continue to do so? This may make you laugh - one parent would say "Let's go XXXX" for different situations. Never knew his son had 5-6 different names!

[tennis5]

Originally Posted by Chemist

Every match including doubles and back draws at Kalamazoo has a chair umpire. Cheating, bad behavior or parents' talking in foreign language would not be tolerated. Clay super national for B16 was pretty bad with officiation this year. Saw one player walked out of the court to look for an umpire and it took him more than 5 mins to get one.

Parents may be mostly responsive for kids' cheating. Ever heard parents ask their kids to cheat back and kids use "cheating back" as an excuse for making bad calls? Witnessed a parent yelling at their kids for not calling a ball out during a match? How about parents cheering for opponent's errors and/or cheering for his kid's winning point so loud that can be heard miles away to mess up that poor kid's mental? How about parents arguing that foot fault is not a fault and encouraging his kid to continue to do so? This may make you laugh - one parent would say "Let's go XXXX" for different situations. Never knew his son had 5-6 different names!

Kalamazoo is the gold standard for chair refs.

[gplracer]

Cheating is the fault of the parents. Kids want to win and sometimes they call the ball wrong by mistake or on pupose. Either way it is WRONG! The only reason there are kids out there cheating is because their parents let them do it. Pull your kid out of the tournament, go tell a ref your child is cheating, do something about it parents. Also, the USTA needs harsher penalties for blatant cheating. Penalize games when something is blatant. Have a point system where kids have to sit out if they are caught doing it too much.

[andfor]

Originally Posted by gplracer

Cheating is the fault of the parents. Kids want to win and sometimes they call the ball wrong by mistake or on purpose. Either way it is WRONG! The only reason there are kids out there cheating is because their parents let them do it. Pull your kid out of the tournament, go tell a ref your child is cheating, do something about it parents. Also, the USTA needs harsher penalties for blatant cheating. Penalize games when something is blatant. Have a point system where kids have to sit out if they are caught doing it too much.

It's not always the parents fault. Kids have to learn to call the balls on their own. I've seen parents in a rage about their kid getting cheated on lines many times. But the funny thing is the kids playing never question, fight each other about it or go get a line judge. Calling the lines from the side line for the most part is OFTEN not the best angle. Kids just need to learn to get a line judge using the age old system, question the first one, get a line judge on the second one.

If parents want to get a line judge on their kid, you have to be careful about that. It could be construed as coaching. Like it or not, if a parent did that to my kids match I wouldn't allow it. Whose to say that the parent calling the line judge on his own kid knows that when the line judges walks on the court his kid settles down?

I've also seen parents pull their kid for bad behavior, like this is some sort of noble gesture. Another funny thing, I've only seen the kid pull when they were losing. Everyone knows it was to keep the kid from taking a legitimate loss.

The USTA already has a penalty system for rule violators who get code violations.

I've literally watched hunderends of matches over the last 6 yrs. not just my kids but many others at local, sectional and national level events. I see very good line calling over and over. Reports of increased cheating amoung USTA juniors is greatly exaggerated.

[gplracer]

Originally Posted by andfor

It's not always the parents fault. Kids have to learn to call the balls on their own. I've seen parents in a rage about their kid getting cheated on lines many times. But the funny thing is the kids playing never question, fight each other about it or go get a line judge. Calling the lines from the side line for the most part is OFTEN not the best angle. Kids just need to learn to get a line judge using the age old system, question the first one, get a line judge on the second one.

If parents want to get a line judge on their kid, you have to be careful about that. It could be construed as coaching. Like it or not, if a parent did that to my kids match I wouldn't allow it. Whose to say that the parent calling the line judge on his own kid knows that when the line judges walks on the court his kid settles down?

I've also seen parents pull their kid for bad behavior, like this is some sort of noble gesture. Another funny thing, I've only seen the kid pull when they were losing. Everyone knows it was to keep the kid from taking a legitimate loss.

The USTA already has a penalty system for rule violators who get code violations.

I've literally watched hunderends of matches over the last 6 yrs. not just my kids but many others at local, sectional and national level events. I see very good line calling over and over. Reports of increased cheating amoung USTA juniors is greatly exaggerated.

I have watched hundreds of matches too of just my kids. I do agree with a lot that you have said. For the most part I have only seen really bad cheating a few times. Usually it is when it is deuce at 4-5 and the next two shots are called out or during the tie breaker. I told my son if you have to have a line judge then always call that person back for the tiebreaker. Most of the time I want him to try to give the opponent the benefit of the doubt and assume the shots are being called correctly.

But there are those players who are known for cheating. It happens over and over again. I feel it is the parents fault in those cases because they know it is going on and they let it happen. My older son says that that large percentage of the better players he plays cheat. He says if it is an important point in a close match and lands close to the line it will be called out. He said they only do it in those cases. I tend to disagree with him about this but he believes it. I just think the system could treat cheating and missed calls more harshly. I would rather have my kids miss a call and play it as good rather than out. There are many other kids out there who do not share that belief.

[Chemist]

A boy in our section was suspended for 3 months for making too many bad line calls. This kid has very few friends. My son played doubles with him a few years ago and had to overrule one of his calls. He never played doubles with him again. Most kids improve their line call with age, as they learn how to make right calls. A few high ranked, got worse. Too much pressure from their parents for winning? Other types of cheating include delayed game, long rest room break, screaming and trash talking including the use of racial, sexual remarks and even threatening to "kill" his opponent. Yes, parents are mainly to blame for cheating and bad behaviors. Sometimes, tournament directors knowingly did nothing to stop kids from cheating. I personally witnessed 3 occasions that the match between two siblings were not played but scores were reported. One common excuse used by cheating kids and their parents is that other kid cheated first and their kid just cheated back. BTW, the cheating kids never call umpire to stop other kids from "cheating"!

[JLyon]

Originally Posted by Chemist

A boy in our section was suspended for 3 months for making too many bad line calls. This kid has very few friends. My son played doubles with him a few years ago and had to overrule one of his calls. He never played doubles with him again. Most kids improve their line call with age, as they learn how to make right calls. A few high ranked, got worse. Too much pressure from their parents for winning? Other types of cheating include delayed game, long rest room break, screaming and trash talking including the use of racial, sexual remarks and even threatening to "kill" his opponent. Yes, parents are mainly to blame for cheating and bad behaviors. Sometimes, tournament directors knowingly did nothing to stop kids from cheating. I personally witnessed 3 occasions that the match between two siblings were not played but scores were reported. One common excuse used by cheating kids and their parents is that other kid cheated first and their kid just cheated back. BTW, the cheating kids never call umpire to stop other kids from "cheating"!

I have found that the kids who do the most cheating typically are the most offended when an official shows up and starts correcting their bad calls. Quite entertaining, but sad to see when a 12 y.o. gets a reputation as a cheater.

[andfor]

Cheating or bad line calls rarely change the course of a match. If you've watched as many matches as we have (gpl and Chem.) yes we've seen a handful of late match calls tilt the match or worse make the outcome irreversible. But that's in the minority of matches by the widest of margins. I believe that if the kids/players feel that cheating is prevalent and don't have a strong handle on how to deal with it then they may build in an excuse for losing.

Yea, balls on the line should be called good. I'd rather hear a player say that if they did not hit the ball so darn close they would not have risked the bad call. Then move on to the next point. There are many obstacles to overcome in winning a match. The more a player believes that he is responsible for what happens his actions on the court, and learns from experiences, the stonger player they will become in the long run.

[BMC9670]

Originally Posted by andfor

Cheating or bad line calls rarely change the course of a match. If you've watched as many matches as we have (gpl and Chem.) yes we've seen a handful of late match calls tilt the match or worse make the outcome irreversible. But that's in the minority of matches by the widest of margins. I believe that if the kids/players feel that cheating is prevalent and don't have a strong handle on how to deal with it then they may build in an excuse for losing.

Yea, balls on the line should be called good. I'd rather hear a player say that if they did not hit the ball so darn close they would not have risked the bad call. Then move on to the next point. There are many obstacles to overcome in winning a match. The more a player believes that he is responsible for what happens his actions on the court, and learns from experiences, the stonger player they will become in the long run.

Probably true, but those few instances stick with people, so it gets blown up.

I've only seen one match really decided by cheating so far. Two 12U kids (not mine) were playing a 3rd set tie breaker in a semi. It was a great battle - close and down to the wire. I was on a deck overlooking one baseline and the kid on my side followed an approach to the net and got lobbed. Great lob, landed just inside the line and left a nice mark on the HarTru. The kid chasing it down called it out and swiped his foot over the mark. The other kid couldn't see where it landed as his view was obstructed by his opponents body.

The worst part was, the cheater's parents were cheering the win wildly (sitting near me with the same vantage point) and the lobbers mom was yelling at him for letting it happen. Should have been the other way around.

[Chemist]

Originally Posted by JLyon

I have found that the kids who do the most cheating typically are the most offended when an official shows up and starts correcting their bad calls. Quite entertaining, but sad to see when a 12 y.o. gets a reputation as a cheater.

Yes I have also seen a cheating kid would continue to cheat even when an umpire is watching. When this poor kid got calls reversed for 7-8 times on the B12 clay super national, one of his correct calls was also reversed because he could not correctly identify the ball mark.

[andfor]

Originally Posted by BMC9670

Probably true, but those few instances stick with people, so it gets blown up.

I've only seen one match really decided by cheating so far. Two 12U kids (not mine) were playing a 3rd set tie breaker in a semi. It was a great battle - close and down to the wire. I was on a deck overlooking one baseline and the kid on my side followed an approach to the net and got lobbed. Great lob, landed just inside the line and left a nice mark on the HarTru. The kid chasing it down called it out and swiped his foot over the mark. The other kid couldn't see where it landed as his view was obstructed by his opponents body.

The worst part was, the cheater's parents were cheering the win wildly (sitting near me with the same vantage point) and the lobbers mom was yelling at him for letting it happen. Should have been the other way around.

We've all witnessed ugly moments at the tennis courts and I've got more than one story. For every one horror story I'd say there's about 100 matches that go down with little to no incident.

[tennis5]

Originally Posted by Chemist

A boy in our section was suspended for 3 months for making too many bad line calls. This kid has very few friends. My son played doubles with him a few years ago and had to overrule one of his calls. He never played doubles with him again. Most kids improve their line call with age, as they learn how to make right calls. A few high ranked, got worse. Too much pressure from their parents for winning? Other types of cheating include delayed game, long rest room break, screaming and trash talking including the use of racial, sexual remarks and even threatening to "kill" his opponent. Yes, parents are mainly to blame for cheating and bad behaviors. Sometimes, tournament directors knowingly did nothing to stop kids from cheating. I personally witnessed 3 occasions that the match between two siblings were not played but scores were reported. One common excuse used by cheating kids and their parents is that other kid cheated first and their kid just cheated back. BTW, the cheating kids never call umpire to stop other kids from "cheating"!

Parents excuse a lot of bad behavior such as cursing, ( love the F word and Jesus and God put together combo),
spiking balls out of the court ( who cares who it hits) , and throwing racquets after they lose as "letting off steam".
Wonder how that will turn out when they get to the office, and curse out their boss.
I just see a lot of parents not parenting.......

[Chemist]

Originally Posted by BMC9670

Probably true, but those few instances stick with people, so it gets blown up.

I've only seen one match really decided by cheating so far. Two 12U kids (not mine) were playing a 3rd set tie breaker in a semi. It was a great battle - close and down to the wire. I was on a deck overlooking one baseline and the kid on my side followed an approach to the net and got lobbed. Great lob, landed just inside the line and left a nice mark on the HarTru. The kid chasing it down called it out and swiped his foot over the mark. The other kid couldn't see where it landed as his view was obstructed by his opponents body.

The worst part was, the cheater's parents were cheering the win wildly (sitting near me with the same vantage point) and the lobbers mom was yelling at him for letting it happen. Should have been the other way around.

My son and I watched one match at a B14 national open 3 years ago. Three umpires were on the same court to help two Eastern boys making the line calls. On the next court, two boys from the same section were playing one out ball after another. We still remember all of these four boys' names.

I could only remember my son lost perhaps a total of 5 matches (out of more than 800 matches has has played) because of bad calls. But he probably lost a couple of dozens because he played the out balls.

[gplracer]

Originally Posted by Chemist

My son and I watched one match at a B14 national open 3 years ago. Three umpires were on the same court to help two Eastern boys making the line calls. On the next court, two boys from the same section were playing one out ball after another. We still remember all of these four boys' names.

I could only remember my son lost perhaps a total of 5 matches (out of more than 800 matches has has played) because of bad calls. But he probably lost a couple of dozens because he played the out balls.

I hear you my 10 year old plays out balls all he time. I think serves are the hardest for him to call. He plays lots of balls that are a foot out.

[tennis5]

Originally Posted by gplracer

I hear you my 10 year old plays out balls all he time. I think serves are the hardest for him to call. He plays lots of balls that are a foot out.

This would be a great thread on its own......

Why can some juniors see the serves better than others?

My son has the same problem and he is a bit older...

I am beginning to think I need to get his eyes checked.

[BMC9670]

Originally Posted by gplracer

I hear you my 10 year old plays out balls all he time. I think serves are the hardest for him to call. He plays lots of balls that are a foot out.

Originally Posted by tennis5

This would be a great thread on its own......

Why can some juniors see the serves better than others?

My son has the same problem and he is a bit older...

I am beginning to think I need to get his eyes checked.

My 10 year old does this, too. I thought it was only when I play with him and he doesn't want to call it out on me, but I see him play serves in matches that are a good 6 inches or more out. Doesn't have the same issue with sidelines or baseline. Maybe it's something about that particular angle?

[lala28m]

Originally Posted by BMC9670

My 10 year old does this, too. I thought it was only when I play with him and he doesn't want to call it out on me, but I see him play serves in matches that are a good 6 inches or more out. Doesn't have the same issue with sidelines or baseline. Maybe it's something about that particular angle?

Height disadvantage? I would think that angle is the worst one. I know it still gets me, which I always call good...Which is obviously what you're always supposed to do, but I second guess myself a lot less on those service calls, because, honestly, they are just the hardest ones for me to call on my opponent. I'm 5'3 btw.

Obviously, so much easier watching the kids match and being an expert. Lol. I do it all the time "What, are they blind??"

[gplracer]

Originally Posted by lala28m

Height disadvantage? I would think that angle is the worst one. I know it still gets me, which I always call good...Which is obviously what you're always supposed to do, but I second guess myself a lot less on those service calls, because, honestly, they are just the hardest ones for me to call on my opponent. I'm 5'3 btw.

Obviously, so much easier watching the kids match and being an expert. Lol. I do it all the time "What, are they blind??"

I am not sure. I think it is a developmental thing. BTW my 10 year old is 5'2".

[Chemist]

Originally Posted by gplracer

I hear you my 10 year old plays out balls all he time. I think serves are the hardest for him to call. He plays lots of balls that are a foot out.

Originally Posted by tennis5

This would be a great thread on its own......

Why can some juniors see the serves better than others?

My son has the same problem and he is a bit older...

I am beginning to think I need to get his eyes checked.

Originally Posted by BMC9670

My 10 year old does this, too. I thought it was only when I play with him and he doesn't want to call it out on me, but I see him play serves in matches that are a good 6 inches or more out. Doesn't have the same issue with sidelines or baseline. Maybe it's something about that particular angle?

My son is already 16 and he would still return so many serves that are out several inches, many are 2nd serves. It's very difficult for a returner to see a gap between the balls and the service line when the ball bounces off at 80-90 miles per hour (or even 50-60 miles per hour for 10-12 yr old). He has been improving on calling serves lately, after hours of practicing receiving with another kid who has big serves and me as the line judge. We came to a conclusion that it's impossible to see a gap between where the ball bounces off and the service line if the serve is less than an inch deeper and difficult to see the gap if its less than 2" deeper. After seeing and hearing me calling the serves hundreds of the serves, he is a lot better now.

Calling the ball out from the baseline is also a lot tougher than calling the ball out on the sidelines.