Apparently, Sampras still thinks he's the GOAT!!!

[Tagg]

Originally Posted by abmk

pretty sure, zagor mentioned in comparison to the far more talented and better players like nalby, rios, mecir, tsonga etc ...

if safin had his head on in that final, he'd have won it ....

actually the courts were faster than usual in 09, but not exceptionally faster ....that actually had him in trouble vs the power-hitting of delpo in the semis

yeah, he has no chance in the 80s with chang, noah winning there ,he couldn't overpower wilander or beat lendl even once there

no chance in the 70s either with kodes/panatta winning there ( borg reached a higher level on clay from 77 onwards, but 74,75,76, while darn good, could still be beaten )

he is #1 or #2 on grass
he is #1 on HC

on clay, I'd say he's definitely outside of the top 5 (nadal,borg,kuerten, lendl,wilander ) ....... but after that not much of a difference b/w the rest - bruguera, courier, fed, muster, vilas, nastase ....

ifs, buts. talent is an undefined abstract, and does not equal success

the truth is that safin was a notorious headcase, who was sublime when he actually bothered to focus. johansson played superb that whole tournament, and was not a fluke

he took his chances, unlike the players you mentioned (tsonga being compared with those three? gave me a good laugh!)


you should re-watch FO 09, it was significantly faster. the courts were drier, and the balls used flew faster in the air. all this benefited federer

he beat del potro in the semi-final because del potro ran out of stream/stamina.

what goes around comes around, and del potro took his chances later that year at the us open

since then he's had a little bit of a match up problem with federer


lendl and wilander are better clay court players than federer in the respective eras they played in

borg and vilas, better on the red stuff than federer, no doubt

it's hard enough comparing the 80s to the 00s. early 70s i think is too far back. it's open era, yes, but compare 1972 to 1982, totally different game


look at federer's early years, that is a glimpse of how he would have played in the 90s

with the exception of hamburg (the low bounce saving federer from having his backhand exposed), i don't see much clay prowess

federer is a fast court player, first and foremost

yet the homogenized, slower surfaces benefited him due to him changing his game

or did he change for the surfaces? that's another debate

[abmk]

Originally Posted by Tagg

ifs, buts. talent is an undefined abstract, and does not equal success

the truth is that safin was a notorious headcase, who was sublime when he actually bothered to focus. johansson played superb that whole tournament, and was not a fluke

he took his chances, unlike the players you mentioned (tsonga being compared with those three? gave me a good laugh!)

except those guys didn't have it as easy as johansson did vs a headcasing safin

tsonga when on was/is ridiculously brilliant ...(watch his AO semi-final vs nadal in 2008 or the last 4 sets vs fed @ wimbledon 2011 or even set 1.5 to sets 4 of RG vs djoker 2012 )

Originally Posted by Tagg

you should re-watch FO 09, it was significantly faster. the courts were drier, and the balls used flew faster in the air. all this benefited federer

he beat del potro in the semi-final because del potro ran out of stream/stamina.

what goes around comes around, and del potro took his chances later that year at the us open

since then he's had a little bit of a match up problem with federer

I did watch the entire FO in 2009 ...... while it was faster, it wasn't that much faster ...

and federer beat delpo because he raised his level and delpo couldn't possibly keep up that level of hitting for that long ......regardless, the courts being faster there was actually a problem for federer in that case ....

Originally Posted by Tagg

lendl and wilander are better clay court players than federer in the respective eras they played in

already mentioned that they are better... doesn't mean he couldn't beat them @ RG

Originally Posted by Tagg

borg and vilas, better on the red stuff than federer, no doubt

borg, absolutely ...... vilas, hell no ... I'd say fairly comparable ... it wasn't just borg he was losing to @ RG, he lost to solomon twice, noah once and got crushed by pecci

Originally Posted by Tagg

look at federer's early years, that is a glimpse of how he would have played in the 90s

with the exception of hamburg (the low bounce saving federer from having his backhand exposed), i don't see much clay prowess

federer is a fast court player, first and foremost

yet the homogenized, slower surfaces benefited him due to him changing his game

or did he change for the surfaces? that's another debate

actually federer's mid 2003-05 play are more of an indication of how he'd have played in the 90s, not his early years ..... a true all-court player with brilliant balance b/w offense and defense ...

yeah, 3 consecutive finals @ monte carlo ( 2006-2008 ) and a win, 4 finals and 2 semis @ RG ; that epic match @ rome vs nadal in 2006; no claycourt prowess apart from what he did @ hamburg

can't move well there, doesn't have enough patience in rallies, groundstrokes not consistent enough ......... oh wait ..... that's not federer, that's someone else ... guess who ?

berasategui managed to make a RG final in the 90s with a BH that wasn't remotely anywhere comparable to federer's ....... yet people talk about fed's BH being a liability on clay ?

[timnz]

Originally Posted by THUNDERVOLLEY

Missing the point; after 4 FO finals losing to Nadal, there's no countering evidence to suggest Federer would win that one FO if Nadal happened to be the opponent. There's no getting around that.

That is a fluke....to anyone with an objective view.

So with Nadal out early, are you saying that it was not possible for the 2009 Roland Garros to have a worthy winner? Should the tournament have been stopped after Nadals loss?

[Tennis Dunce]

Sampras was a juggernaut...but not GOAT. Then again its almost impossible to compare gut era with poly era...its like two different epochs.

[Tennis Dunce]

double post