Incorrect ATP stats (a survey)

[krosero]

Finding more boxscores.

Sampras-Becker, 1997 Wimbledon quarterfinal, 6-1, 6-7 (5), 6-1, 6-4

Dallas Morning News:

Sampras Becker
Aces 19 6
Service winners 52 35
Double faults 3 2
1st serve pct. 69 62
Percent 1st serve pts won 79 62
Break points 5-9 0-3
Net points 67-88 57-94
Total points won 123 86
Time of match: 2:06

The ATP has Sampras leading in total points by 143-97, but that drops to 124-87 if the aces and df's are subtracted once.

The ATP has Sampras serving 19 service games, and Becker only 17. On that, they appear to be right.

Following the score, it looks like Sampras must have served first in sets 1 and 3, because Becker served first in the tiebreak.

I had no idea that could happen in a tennis match.


Agassi-Stich, 1994 U.S. Open final, 6-1, 7-6, 7-5

Hartford Courant:

Agassi Stich
First-serve percentage 67 47
Aces 3 10
Double faults 2 10
Pct. 1st serve pts. won 85 73
Pct. 2nd serve pts. won 62 52
Winners (incl. service) 28 34
Unforced errors 14 48
Break pt. conversions 4-11 0-2
Net approaches 15-19 53-86
Total points won 111 87
Time of match 1:56.

The ATP has Agassi ahead in total points by 124-100, but that drops to 111-87 if the aces and df's are subtracted once.

Before this, the '95 USO final had been the oldest boxscore I'd seen that said it included service in the Winners.

[Tennis old man]

Fine stats Kevin.

[krosero]

Here are a few more matches for which the ATP stats -- though they might contain minor errors -- at least appear not to have counted aces and df's twice.

For Becker-Sampras, 1996 ATP Championships, round-robin, the ATP has each man winning 94 points, in line with my own count.

For Becker-Sampras, 1996 Eurocard final, the ATP has Becker leading in total points by 139-137. I have the same numbers if I presume that Sampras held at love in the one game missing on my DVD.

For Sampras-Agassi, 1999 ATP Championships final, ESPN has Sampras winning 37 of 43 points on first serve late in the match. By my count, he went 7 for 7 on his remaining good first serves. So for the entire match he would have won 44 of 50, an exact match with the ATP.

In the 90s, it's still pretty frequent that I see aces and df's counted twice at the ATP, but some matches don't appear to have that problem. Interesting that the two Becker-Sampras matches are okay (since the stats for their 5-set ATP Championships final are also correct, going by the New York Times).

[krosero]

Here's another that looks good.

Kafelnikov-Krajicek, 1999 USO quarterfinal, 7-6 (0), 7-6 (4), 3-6, 1-6, 7-6 (5)

The Record (Bergen County, NJ):

Krajicek won 87 percent of his first-serve points, broke the single-match record for aces (46 set by Goran Ivanisevic in a first-round Wimbledon loss in 1997), and hit an astounding 82 winners to Kafelnikov's 48. The Dutchman, seeded 12th, actually won two more points overall than Kafelnikov, but they weren't enough to advance.

The ATP has Krajicek winning 87% of points on his first serve, and leading 169-167 in total points.

New York Daily News:

After being aced an unbelievable 48 times, Yevgeny Kafelnikov finished off Richard Krajicek with nothing else but an ace.

The Russian withstood a record-setting barrage of aces from the 12th seed before emerging with a 7-6 (7-0), 7-6 (7-4), 3-6, 1-6, 7-6 (7-5) quarterfinal victory that lasted three hours and 20 minutes on Louis Armstrong Stadium court last night.

Krajicek set a men's record for most aces in a best-of-five Grand Slam match, topping Goran Ivanisevic's 46 aces in a 1997 match at Wimbledon.

Ironically, Kafelnikov, seeded third and winner of this year's Australian Open, aced Krajicek for the 10th time to move into his second Grand Slam semifinal of the year. He needed four match points in the tiebreaker.

"I was pretty nervous," Kafelnikov said. "I was so nervous, I didn't know how I made that ace."

Kafelnikov said earlier in the tournament that either he, Krajicek or Andre Agassi was going to win it all. Yesterday, Krajicek and Kafelnikov played the first two sets almost evenly, despite Krajicek's 25 aces.

In the third and fourth sets, Krajicek broke Kafelnikov twice in each set. Meanwhile, Kafelnikov couldn't touch the Dutchman's first serves as Krajicek converted a scorching 82% of them in the fourth.

Kafelnikov, though, was able to beat Krajicek by taking advantage of his less-blistering second serve. The Russian won 48 of 75 points off that serve.

The ATP has Krajicek at 49 aces, but no problem otherwise; they've got Kafelnikov hitting 10 aces and winning 48 of 74 points on Krajicek's second serve.

The most recent match in which I know aces and df's were counted twice is still the 1999 W final.

[krosero]

Another that looks good.

Sampras-Agassi, 1999 Los Angeles final, 7-6, 7-6

CBS News online:

The match was as tight as could be, except for the tiebreakers, where Sampras won 14 of the 18 points contested.

Otherwise, Agassi won 74 points to 68 for Sampras.

"Two tiebreakers," Sampras said when asked the difference in the one-hour, 35-minute match. "Andre is so tough for me to play. He returns so well."

But not in the tiebreakers, where Sampras' service was invincible. He served five winners in the first-set tiebreaker, with one ace and three serves.

Meanwhile, Agassi was 3-2 on his serve.

Agassi opened the second-set tiebreaker with a double-fault -- his only one of the match. Sampras followed with an ace, and it was all downhill from there. Agassi won a point on his serve to make it 3-1 before Sampras won four straight points to close out the match.

Sampras was 4-0 while serving in the second-set tiebreaker with his 11th and final ace along with unreturnable serves.

Agassi had 10 aces in the match, and won 52 of 70 service points. But it wasn't enough. Sampras won 64 of 90 service points.

The points won on serve are the same numbers the ATP has. However the ATP has Sampras leading in overall points by 82-78. And mathematically those must be the correct numbers if Sampras went 64/90 on serve and Agassi 52/70.

[krosero]

Two more that look good.

- For Sampras-Calleri, 1999 U.S. Open, R32, a boxscore at ESPN.com put Sampras ahead in total points by 103-92, same as the ATP.

Sampras Calleri
First serve 65% 47%
Aces 17 17
Double faults 5 3
Winning first serve 58 of 66 39 of 44
Winning second serve 23 of 36 32 of 49
Winners 40 47
Unforced errors 22 24
Break-point conversions 1 of 3 0 of 3
Net approaches 57 of 88 10 of 15
Total points won 103 92

- For Sampras-McEnroe, 1991 U.S. Pro Indoor semifinal, Moose Malloy counted the same number of points played as the ATP.

[krosero]

In all these, the ATP appears to have counted aces and df's twice.

- For Ivanisevic-Edberg, 1992 Wimbledon quarterfinal, Moose Malloy counted 316 points in the match; the ATP has 315 if aces and df’s are subtracted once from their figures for Total Points Won.

- For Agassi-Rafter, 1995 AO, R16, I have Agassi leading in total points by 82-53, and so does the ATP if aces and df’s are subtracted once.

- For Philippoussis-Sampras, 1996 Australian Open, R32, I have Philippoussis leading in total points by 119-109, and so does the ATP if they don’t count their aces and df’s twice.

- For Kafelnikov-Sampras, 1996 Roland Garros SF, I have Kafelnikov leading in total points by 105-71, and so does the ATP if they don’t count their aces and df’s twice – but note that they have two fewer Kafelnikov aces and two fewer Sampras double-faults than I do.

- For Washington-Radulescu, 1996 Wimbledon quarterfinal, the Boston Globe has Washington leading in total points by 185-182, and so does the ATP if aces and df’s are subtracted once.

- For Rafter-Rusedski, 1997 USO final, a boxscore in the Hartford Courant has Rafter leading in total points by 127-106; the ATP has the same if their aces and df’s are subtracted once.

Rafter Rusedski
First-serve pct. 62 60
Winners 49 31
Aces 7 9
Unforced errors 23 26
Double faults 6 4
Break-point conv. 6-17 3-9
Pct. 1st-serve pts 82 63
Net approaches 68-95 54-100
Pct. 2nd-serve pts 46 51
Total points won 127 106

- For Philippoussis-Moya, 1998 U.S. Open semifinal, the New York Times has Philippoussis winning 63 of 74 points on first serve. The ATP has 83 of 94, which looks as if they counted nearly all of Mark’s aces twice (the Times and the ATP agree that he had 21 aces).

- For Rafter-Sampras, 1998 USO semifinal, I have Rafter leading in overall points by 152-138. The ATP has Rafter leading by 153-135, if the aces and df’s are subtracted once.

[krosero]

And here's an example of how widespread the problem of counting aces and df's twice might be in matches from the 1990s.

- At the 1994 AO, ESPN had Todd Martin winning 172 of 451 points on his opponents’ first serves through the semifinals. The ATP has him winning 172 of 489, which works out exactly if they counted his opponents' 38 aces twice.

[krosero]

Originally Posted by krosero

- For Edberg-Chang, 1992 USO SF, the Minneapolis Star-Tribune has Edberg leading 209-175 in overall points, for a total of 384. The Washington Post and SI have 404. The ATP has 436, but that drops down to 404 if the aces and doubles are subtracted once (with Edberg leading 209-195). So I'm inclined to think that 404 is the correct number; only the Star-Tribune disagrees.

I'm not surprised that anyone made a mistake given the record length of the match (5:26 at the ATP and in the press reports). The Post, SI, and the ATP agree that there were 23 service breaks. The LA Times has Chang converting 11 of 34 break points (same as the ATP) and facing 20 himself; the ATP has him facing 21.

ESPN showed some highlights so I got some of the CBS stats in the fifth set on break points and total points played.

CBS has got each player winning 178 points late in the match, so I counted forward and got 404 points in total, with Edberg leading 209-195.

And the break points agree completely with the ATP.

[krosero]

- For Sampras-Edberg, 1994 Indian Wells semifinal, the ATP stats are confirmed by Moose Malloy’s own count of first-serve percentages, success on first and second serve, aces, double-faults and break points.

- For Muster-Becker, 1995 Monte Carlo final, Moose counted 313 points, just two more than the ATP has. And for each player he counted as many successful first serves as the ATP did.

[krosero]

In all of these matches the ATP has counted aces and double-faults twice.

- For Sampras-Stich, 1992 Wimbledon quarterfinal, ABMK has Sampras leading 83-62 in total points. The ATP would have 84-61 if they subtracted aces and df’s once.

- For Lendl-Connors, 1992 USO, R64, I have Lendl leading in total points by 111-80, which is what the ATP would have they subtracted aces and df’s once from their stats.

- For Edberg-Krajicek, 1992 USO, R16, the New York Times had Edberg leading 181-169 in total points. The ATP figures drop to 179-167 (from a tie of 193-193) if the ATP’s aces and double-faults are subtracted once. Note also that the Times had Edberg serving 13 double-faults (compared to the ATP’s 11) and Krajicek serving 13 aces (compared to the ATP’s 15).

- For Sampras-Becker, 1993 Wimbledon semifinal, the ATP has Sampras leading 130-113 in total points, which comes out to 107-93 if the aces and double-faults are subtracted once. SLICE SERVE ACE has Sampras leading 107-92.

- For Sampras-Courier, 1993 Wimbledon final, the ATP has Sampras leading 163-135 in total points, but if aces and double-faults are subtracted once the lead is 135-120, right in line with SLICE SERVE ACE's count.

- For Sampras-Pioline, 1993 U.S. Open final, a boxscore in the Baltimore Sun has Sampras leading in total points by 97-75, which is what the ATP would have if they subtracted aces and df’s once.

- For Yzaga-Sampras, 1994 U.S. Open, R16, a boxscore in the Orlando Sentinel has Yzaga leading 166-161 in total points, same as the ATP if the aces and df's are subtracted once.

- For Becker-Agassi, 1995 Wimbledon SF, I have Becker leading 151-47 in total points, same as the ATP if aces and df’s are subtracted once.

- For Sampras-Becker, 1995 W final, I have Sampras leading 138-108 in total points, same as the ATP if their aces and doubles are subtracted once. Also, the ATP gave Becker 16 df’s, one more than he had in my count and in the Washington Post’s.

- For Krajicek-Sampras, 1996 Wimbledon quarterfinal, Wimbledon.org has Krajicek leading 116-101 in total points. The ATP has 114-99 if aces and df’s are subtracted once. Also, the ATP reports that Krajicek faced 6 break points, but the New York Times reported 7 (confirmed in my own count).

- For Sampras-Chang, 1996 USO final, a boxscore in the Spartanburg Herald Journal has Sampras leading in total points by 94-76, which the ATP also has if aces and double-faults are subtracted once.

- For Sampras-Henman, 1998 Wimbledon semifinal, the ATP reports a total of 136 points served by Sampras, but SLICE SERVE ACE counted only 114. The ATP has the same number if Sampras’ 15 aces and 7 df’s are subtracted once.

- For Sampras-Ivanisevic, 1998 Wimbledon final, SLICE SERVE ACE reports 155 points served by Sampras, which is what the ATP would have if they subtracted Sampras’ 11 aces and 8 df’s once.

[krosero]

Originally Posted by krosero

Norman-Ivanisevic, 1997 Wimbledon, 2nd round,
6-3, 2-6, 7-6, 4-6, 14-12.

That's 65 service games, plus one tiebreak. The ATP boxscore reports only 39 -- as if the 26 games of the fifth set had been dropped.

The Dallas Morning News had a boxscore:

Norman Ivanisevic
Aces 25 46
Service winners 90 92
Double faults 18 19
1st serve pct 51 56
1st serve win pct. 81 85
Break points 2-9 3-17
Return points won 27 56
Net points 104-152 97-133
Total points won 191 207

That's 398 total points, compared to 302 at the ATP.

A little more on how the fifth set was dropped in the ATP stats.

The ATP lists only 26 double-faults between the two players, when they actually served 37 double-faults. Norman is given only 17 aces, when he actually had 25.

But the ATP boxscore does credit Goran with his full 46 aces!

46 was once an ace record. So perhaps the number was simply too famous not to list correctly.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Share/Ma...997&r=2&p=N250

[krosero]

- For Sampras-Becker, 1997 Wimbledon quarterfinal, the ATP puts Sampras at 17 aces, 4 df’s and 4 break points faced. The Dallas Morning News and NBC put him at 19 aces, 3 df’s and 3 break points faced. Moreover, NBC reports 209 points played in the match; the Dallas Morning News has 211; the ATP has 240, which would come down to 211 if the aces and double-faults were subtracted once.

- For Kuerten-Norman, 2000 French Open final, the ATP has Kuerten facing 16 break points; NBC has 14, and the official RG site has only 13.

- For Federer-Roddick, 2007 Masters Cup, ESPN had Federer serving at 85%, while the ATP has 82%.

- For Federer-Nadal, 2007 Masters Cup semifinal, ESPN had Federer serving at 83% (40 successful first serves), while the ATP has 81% (39 first serves). ESPN had Nadal serving at 67%, while the ATP has 71%.

[Carsomyr]

Since your OP, has the ATP corrected at least some of your earlier grievances?

[Nadal_Power]

Originally Posted by Carsomyr

Since your OP, has the ATP corrected at least some of your earlier grievances?

Believe me.. never gonna happen!!

They have Antwerp 1998 (Belgium mid ****in February) as Outdoor event.. i sent them many emalis to correct that and to make it Indoor Hard (with link to tournament's page on ITF) but then they must correct Indoor-Outdoor matches ratio for 32 players in the draw and they just don't want to do that. Its better to stay wrong than to work and on it and make it true

[krosero]

Originally Posted by Carsomyr

Since your OP, has the ATP corrected at least some of your earlier grievances?

Not that I have seen. I can tell you with certainty, none of the matches in my very first post have been corrected.

[krosero]

Originally Posted by Nadal_Power

Believe me.. never gonna happen!!

They have Antwerp 1998 (Belgium mid ****in February) as Outdoor event.. i sent them many emalis to correct that and to make it Indoor Hard (with link to tournament's page on ITF) but then they must correct Indoor-Outdoor matches ratio for 32 players in the draw and they just don't want to do that. Its better to stay wrong than to work and on it and make it true

You may be right, but shouldn't something like this update automatically, if corrections are made?

[Nadal_Power]

Originally Posted by krosero

You may be right, but shouldn't something like this update automatically, if corrections are made?

I'm not sure.. but its annoying

[Nadal_Power]

Wrong stats for 1993 Australian Open final too!

There was 201 points, not 229. Jim won 115 and Stefan 86

Courier served 56/96, and Stefan 58/105

Courier was 44/56 on first and 22/40 on second serve. Stefan was 38/58 on first and 18/47 on second serve

Jim was 49/105 on return, Stefan 30/96

[Mustard]

Plenty of matches on the ATP website have incorrect scores. The ITF website isn't perfect in this regard either, but it's much more accurate than the ATP's on the whole.