Video hitting some serves - critique wanted

[WildVolley]

Originally Posted by ohplease

The take back really doesn't matter. This is what matters:



Martin's forearms on both his racket and non-racket arms are just along for the ride. Another thing to pay attention to is his racket hand relative to the background. It literally does not change height relative to the stair step/woman's head in the background. Sure, the rest of his body is dragging that hand forward and ultimately up and through the ball, but that hand doesn't change height across the entire width of the stairs and through most of his motion. The still above is the last moment before his hand leaves that same height.

Nice picture. I agree that JackB1 is going to have a much better serve if he can get a feel for the racket drop. I contend the racket drop error is more of a problem than the trophy, though they might be slightly related.

The proper serve motion can be practiced off the court. Just work on getting the feel of a nice relaxed motion with plenty of lag and racket drop. I'd use video to confirm that the relaxed shadow swings are instilling the form you want.

[Power Player]

I have spent a lot of time getting my serve to the point of being rhythmic. I started in the abbreviated. One thing that really stuck out to me in the virtual tennis academy was the instruction to bend the knees and hit the trophy position when the ball is at it's peak. For whatever reason, that really clicked with me, as I was bending my knees too early. Basically when I was tossing.

Anyway, to get this timed out better, I went to a lagged serve motion where I bring the racquet back instead of abbreviating. I found that when I do this, as long as I have a high toss, everything just flows. Racquet drop, knee bend, etc. It also feels a lot easier on my arm, since it seems to go loose.

Bottom line is that I have been practicing my serve to the point where this all is developing itself. So it is all about practice and spending the time until at some point it clicks. I still have to get the accuracy and consistency down. Takes a lot of time, so dont overthink too much. Just keep hitting serves everyday .

[JackB1]

Originally Posted by WildVolley

Nice picture. I agree that JackB1 is going to have a much better serve if he can get a feel for the racket drop. I contend the racket drop error is more of a problem than the trophy, though they might be slightly related.

The proper serve motion can be practiced off the court. Just work on getting the feel of a nice relaxed motion with plenty of lag and racket drop. I'd use video to confirm that the relaxed shadow swings are instilling the form you want.

Anyone have any tips on how to get the "racquet drop" lower? I can do it in "slow mo" shadow swings, but for some reason when it's "live", I don't get much drop. I really need some kind of a drill or cue to help get the racquet down my back and the elbow up. It's a real struggle for me for some reason.

[Chas Tennis]

Originally Posted by JackB1

Anyone have any tips on how to get the "racquet drop" lower? I can do it in "slow mo" shadow swings, but for some reason when it's "live", I don't get much drop. I really need some kind of a drill or cue to help get the racquet down my back and the elbow up. It's a real struggle for me for some reason.

On thing that drops the racket is the timed leg thrust.

[Rotation means axial rotation.]

Picture the racket and forearm at about a right angle to the upper arm, back somewhat from vertical, as the legs begin to thrust upward. Then the moment of inertia of the forearm-racket causes the upper arm to rotate - the shoulder externally rotates stretching the internal shoulder rotator muscles. If you try to do this using only the small external shoulder rotator muscles it cannot rotate as far. Stand upper arm out from shoulder, forearm-racket at 90° to upper arm, slightly back from vertical, and see how the leg thrust would rotate the upper arm.

In most serves the forearm and racket are not held as a unit in a straight line although I have seen some strong servers them keep them in a straight line for quite a while. There may be additional stretching of wrist muscles as the legs thrust up and also as the hitting shoulder goes up. See videos as words can't describe......

The range of motion for shoulder external rotation is greater in a dynamic loading stretch mode with leg thrust as opposed to just rotating the upper arm back without other body motions.

I'm not clear on how the trunk also causes the same stretch of the ISR muscles but I believe it adds.

Also, the arm should be relaxed and not trying to reproduce mental images of serves.

[Power Player]

Originally Posted by JackB1

Anyone have any tips on how to get the "racquet drop" lower? I can do it in "slow mo" shadow swings, but for some reason when it's "live", I don't get much drop. I really need some kind of a drill or cue to help get the racquet down my back and the elbow up. It's a real struggle for me for some reason.

You want it all to flow. Most likely you are overthinking it and putting everything into steps.

What can help is to just practice tossing a ball and hitting your trophy pose with the knees bent when the ball hits its peak. You can practice this anywhere.

From there, I went back to the standard motion where my racquet is pointing down and is in motion from start to finish. That really helps get a racquet drop that you won't even think about.

[Chas Tennis]

What is the largest muscle attached to the arm?

[psv255]

Originally Posted by JackB1

Anyone have any tips on how to get the "racquet drop" lower? I can do it in "slow mo" shadow swings, but for some reason when it's "live", I don't get much drop. I really need some kind of a drill or cue to help get the racquet down my back and the elbow up. It's a real struggle for me for some reason.

Try this video, develops a good sense of racquet drop gradually.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=WsJJ_BWBQcI

[JackB1]

Originally Posted by psv255

Try this video, develops a good sense of racquet drop gradually.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=WsJJ_BWBQcI

Thanks. That's EXACTLY the kind of thing I was looking for

[JackB1]

Originally Posted by Chas Tennis

What is the largest muscle attached to the arm?

the shoulder muscle?

[zapvor]

Originally Posted by UCSF2012

Now, that looks like a pro stance. Unfortunately, it looks like Sharapova's. But hey, pro's pro.

hahaha thats funny

[zapvor]

seriously though, this is a tennis board. on the internet. whatever instruction you get here is only so much.

you will get much better, much quicker, if you just get lessons from a good pro. 6 lessons should get you enough to hone it. or be stupid like me and take over 3yrs and counting

[Chas Tennis]

Originally Posted by JackB1

the shoulder muscle?

No that's not it.

[Xizel]

Originally Posted by Chas Tennis

What is the largest muscle attached to the arm?

The lats attach to the humerus

[Chas Tennis]

Originally Posted by Xizel

The lats attach to the humerus

That's it.

[JackB1]

Originally Posted by zapvor

seriously though, this is a tennis board. on the internet. whatever instruction you get here is only so much.

you will get much better, much quicker, if you just get lessons from a good pro. 6 lessons should get you enough to hone it. or be stupid like me and take over 3yrs and counting

I have been taking lessons at $75/hour, but I can only afford so many of those per month. The hour goes by so fast and the Pro's usually want to take things very sloooooow, so they can drag something out into multiple lessons.

[Power Player]

Zappy has no idea anyway. The fact is that most pros will just teach you the rec level stuff so you can go out there and play matches. If you want to learn optimal technique you need to befriend a pro who gets it and that you can talk to now and then about what you are really trying to do. You can then set up lessons and work on specific issues.

they also need to see that you are a player who can execute the technique you want to learn, so there is nothing wrong with learning on your own as long as you are improving your technique.

For that reason I really like that whole feel tennis series a lot. The link posted is fantastic and this guy has a real unique way of showing things that are really only learned over years of play normally. It is almost like a cheat code if you can implement what he is saying.

[JackB1]

Originally Posted by Power Player

Zappy has no idea anyway. The fact is that most pros will just teach you the rec level stuff so you can go out there and play matches. If you want to learn optimal technique you need to befriend a pro who gets it and that you can talk to now and then about what you are really trying to do. You can then set up lessons and work on specific issues.

they also need to see that you are a player who can execute the technique you want to learn, so there is nothing wrong with learning on your own as long as you are improving your technique.

For that reason I really like that whole feel tennis series a lot. The link posted is fantastic and this guy has a real unique way of showing things that are really only learned over years of play normally. It is almost like a cheat code if you can implement what he is saying.

which link was that PP?

[Power Player]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=WsJJ_BWBQcI

[JackB1]

Originally Posted by Power Player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=WsJJ_BWBQcI

thanks!.....................

[Chas Tennis]

Originally Posted by Power Player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=WsJJ_BWBQcI

That video has some great demos of what I believe are some of the important components of the serve. His demos seem to bring out the relaxed arm motions. I'm going to try his demos. Especially the video seems to show how supination would naturally come into the service motion.

Two things that could be improved -

1) For those who would imitate his body position, in my opinion, he keeps his shoulders too level. That orientation differs from the hitting shoulder high by lateral trunk flexion as recommended in the Ellenbecker shoulder video on minimizing impingement risk.

2) He also - as in nearly all serve instruction videos - does not mention by name or identify internal shoulder rotation and the prominent part ISR plays in developing racket head speed on the serve. Some instructors call the motion pronation but still do not clearly describe it.

How many instructor clearly understand ISR - whether they accept that view or not - and, if so, why do they hardly ever specifically mentioned ISR?

Is there a single instruction video where the instructor clearly explains how ISR works? Even if the motion is misnamed 'pronation'?