Baseball Hall of Fame 2013

[El Diablo]

The writers are told that "integrity, sportsmanship, character" are factors they must consider. Not easy to define in all players, but you do the best you can. Does this mean it's their job to punish cheaters? Absolutely.

[volleygirl]

Originally Posted by Disgruntled Worker

I just wish the writers would come out and say why they're not letting Bonds or Clemens in. If you don't think cheaters should prosper, then say so. But Bonds and Clemens were shoe-ins into the Hall way before the PED scandals came up. And this poses another looming question: does ALex Rodriguez make it to Cooperstown? Big Papi? Manny Ramirez?

No way Papi, Manny or Afraud make the HOF

[jamesblakefan#1]

Originally Posted by Fearsome Forehand

I think most of the users have been identified; Bonds, McGuire, Sosa, Roger, Palmero, et al.

If Rose was barred for mere gambling as a manager ( and not against his own team), how does one justify not banning steroid users?

Maybe they should build an annex at Cooperstown shaped like a hypodermic needle and have a special steroid HOF section.

Rose should be in too.

[stringertom]

There's always the Veterans committee route to enshrinement for those snubbed by the writers...time heals many wounds; Orlando Cepeda finally made it in '99, twenty plus years after doing federal hard time for drug dealing.

[maleyoyo]

Originally Posted by r2473

Without a "smoking gun", you sort of have to assume that everyone (or no one) from this era was taking steroids, don't you?

Otherwise it is clearly just down to prejudice / "popularity contest". Which is fine I guess, but doesn't seem "right" (not that that "right" or "wrong" have much to do with it).

The logic seems to be "lets only punish the really, really, really good steroid users that the public doesn't like". I have no problem with this mind you, but there isn't a lot of sense to it all the same (Lance, are you listening.....)

It makes a lot of sense to me.
While you think the process is some sort of selective vendetta, I think it’s strategic and utilizing 80/20 rule.
Without having unlimited personnel and resources, the MLB and cycling are trying to clean up their sports by taking down the top guys, the ring leaders, hoping for increased public awareness and a domino effect. I know it’s cliché but the best way to neutralize a snake is to cut off its head. We all know how difficult and expensive it is to go after a guy like Bonds or Armstrong.
A step in a right direction, don’t you think? The first step is always the hardest and I applaud them for it.

[Disgruntled Worker]

Jeez, I'm sick of all this steroid talk. Let's talk about a sport where absolutely no doping takes place... Who do you think is gonna win the Australian Open?

[volleygirl]

Originally Posted by Fearsome Forehand

I think most of the users have been identified; Bonds, McGuire, Sosa, Roger, Palmero, et al.

If Rose was barred for mere gambling as a manager ( and not against his own team), how does one justify not banning steroid users?

Maybe they should build an annex at Cooperstown shaped like a hypodermic needle and have a special steroid HOF section.

Rose signed a LIFETIME ban so he knew what he was doing. Sure his play on the field was HOF worthy but if you try and screw over the sport that made you what you were, you gotta pay. Saying he didnt bet against his team so he should be in makes no sense though. By choosing to not bet on his team on certain days shows he may have totally spent his bullpen the day before on the game he did bet on at the expense of the upcoming game he wasnt gonna bet on so he was not legitimately managing each game to win.

[stringertom]

Originally Posted by Disgruntled Worker

Jeez, I'm sick of all this steroid talk. Let's talk about a sport where absolutely no doping takes place...Who do you think is gonna win the Australian Open?

LOL...10 chuckles!

[r2473]

Originally Posted by maleyoyo

It makes a lot of sense to me.
While you think the process is some sort of selective vendetta, I think it’s strategic and utilizing 80/20 rule.
Without having unlimited personnel and resources, the MLB and cycling are trying to clean up their sports by taking down the top guys, the ring leaders, hoping for increased public awareness and a domino effect. I know it’s cliché but the best way to neutralize a snake is to cut off its head. We all know how difficult and expensive it is to go after a guy like Bonds or Armstrong.
A step in a right direction, don’t you think? The first step is always the hardest and I applaud them for it.

As is often the case, I think most people make up their minds first, and only then do they look for facts to back up their opinion (prejudice); not the other way around. Everyone "knows" Clemens, Bonds, etc don't "deserve" to be in the HOF, and everyone "knows" Biggio does. Now we just have to selectively look at things to support our view (you guys know that Biggio played pretty much the exact same years as Bonds and Clemens, right?).

[maverick66]

Originally Posted by r2473

As is often the case, I think most people make up their minds first, and only then do they look for facts to back up their opinion (prejudice); not the other way around. Everyone "knows" Clemens, Bonds, etc don't "deserve" to be in the HOF, and everyone "knows" Biggio does. Now we just have to selectively look at things to support our view (you guys know that Biggio played pretty much the exact same years as Bonds and Clemens, right?).

Its kinda funny to me.

Baseball after their strike was hurting bad. Everything was down from ratings to attendance. Than these two guys came along and hit the ball a freaking mile and baseball was back. Than Bonds blew up and San Francisco was back on the map. And Clemens stayed dominant in an era of guys hitting the ball a mile.

Now after they helped get baseball back on track they are shunned along with almost every other star of the generation. Maybe they should open up a PED wing of Cooperstown because these guys deserve some kind of credit for carrying the sport all those years.

[Dedans Penthouse]

Poor Barry BOnds
Poor Roger Clements

Let 'em all in I say! And give Lance Armstrong his yellow jackets back.

[r2473]

Originally Posted by Dedans Penthouse

Poor Barry BOnds
Poor Roger Clements

Let 'em all in I say! And give Lance Armstrong his yellow jackets back.

It's too bad to punish the (all time) greats of the sport just because they have been relegated to the status of "steroid poster boy / everything that is wrong with the sport" in the minds of the public. But at the same time, give a free pass to all the other steroid boys...just because they weren't quite as good as these guys.

[jamesblakefan#1]

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3sip2f/

[volleygirl]

Originally Posted by r2473

It's too bad to punish the (all time) greats of the sport just because they have been relegated to the status of "steroid poster boy / everything that is wrong with the sport" in the minds of the public. But at the same time, give a free pass to all the other steroid boys...just because they weren't quite as good as these guys.

In case you were sleeping, they didnt vote ANYONE in

[CCNM]

I read Roger Clemens' tweet in response to being snubbed on some other website. He just lost my last ounce of respect. I do, however, agree with other fans who say that if Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, and others get elected then the HOF should let Pete Rose (gambling) in.

[J011yroger]

Originally Posted by CCNM

I read Roger Clemens' tweet in response to being snubbed on some other website. He just lost my last ounce of respect. I do, however, agree with other fans who say that if Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, and others get elected then the HOF should let Pete Rose (gambling) in.

I didn't think Rocket's tweet was too bad, at least he laughed it off a bit.

J

[maverick66]

Originally Posted by CCNM

I read Roger Clemens' tweet in response to being snubbed on some other website. He just lost my last ounce of respect. I do, however, agree with other fans who say that if Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, and others get elected then the HOF should let Pete Rose (gambling) in.

Different animal.

Pete Rose used his position as manager to bet on his games. He bet on games he played in. Everyone knows thats a big no no since the Black Sox scandal. Also Rose was thrown out of the league something Clemens and Bonds never had happen.

These guys where doing things that the league knew of. Of course they knew that the players where on funky things but they didnt care until all the sudden PED's became public knowledge. Now the players they rode to financial gain are being tossed aside.

[J011yroger]

Originally Posted by maverick66

Different animal.

Pete Rose used his position as manager to bet on his games. He bet on games he played in. Everyone knows thats a big no no since the Black Sox scandal. Also Rose was thrown out of the league something Clemens and Bonds never had happen.

These guys where doing things that the league knew of. Of course they knew that the players where on funky things but they didnt care until all the sudden PED's became public knowledge. Now the players they rode to financial gain are being tossed aside.

My question is if MLB didn't punish them, and they weren't punished under criminal law, where in the wild blue f*** do the people that write about them in newspapers get off thinking it is their right to punish them?

MLB has hundreds of positive steroid tests on players in the 2000s and they don't tell anyone about them, and they inflict no punishment on the players. (Just like A-Rod who's positive test was leaked by congress)

J

[r2473]

Originally Posted by volleygirl

In case you were sleeping, they didnt vote ANYONE in

I was referring to some of the posts on this thread.

(I get the feeling you don't like me much)

[J011yroger]

Originally Posted by r2473

I was referring to some of the posts on this thread.

(I get the feeling you don't like me much)

I wouldn't take anything personally. I think it just gets off on acting superior to others. I'm sure you have met people who walk around wearing glasses that give them the illusion that they are endowed with knowledge that other moronic plebians are ignorant of.

J