Not Enough Hours In The Day!!

[Pro_Tour_630]

Originally Posted by TCF

Something though does not make sense to me. GA has helped spread the word about the academy. He has a long term plan for his daughter who he describes as super athletic, and building a game to have a chance at the very top of tennis.

She is now 11 I think GA said. On the cusp of the age where she would start winning big things and shining even more light on the academy, in addition to what GA already does.

Why wouldn't the man who runs this academy give him 2-3 years of a low cost ride? If what GA sees is accurate, in 2-3 years she will be winning OB 16s, Herr's, ITFs and bringing tons of attention to the coach.

How many other students could he possible have with that promise, in addition to a dad who played high level tennis himself, who have worked hard to promote how great the academy is?

Seems to me the proper business decision would be do whatever it takes to foster GA and his girl. Every academy has a few kids they support, who would be more deserving than the talented kid of one of your biggest supporters?

if it were a big academy then maybe, but this academy is small 6-7 tops players. it was designed to be small, it is a very tight nit group. I would do the dishes, sweep the floors and string for everyone just to be part of that group I am sure GA would do the same. It is an elite group and the person running it is elite. They are doing things far and above anyone and everything that I have seen. The two i saw are by far the best 10 year old girls I have ever seen, and I have been around. The can kick my ten year old sons butt 0 and 0. Because it is small, the bills have to be paid and everyone has to commit their share.
I teach in our club and my kids can do all the clinics and all the court time for free. I try to form groups but it seems every top level player are doing things on their own. We have four top 10 sectional players that live within a mile of each other, yet all four travel almost an hour in separate direction to work with what they think as the holly grail of development. It is a shame and really sad, it is mainly the parents faults. It is cultural as well. In france, argentina for example these kids would be playing together and all four would be champions.

[TCF]

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[treeman10]

And what does this academy cost annually, ballpark? Does it include boarding? I suppose it's a "if ya have to ask ya can't afford it" kind of place, but I'm curious.

One problem with the discount system in a small environment is the other kids/parents learn very quickly they are likely funding this other player. It's not that the coach takes less, generally they make up for it from other players. And with such a small bunch with what I assume is a very high price tag, playing favorites with anyone can eat through a program and cause a lot of issues. Different with more kids where you can spread it around and keep it buried easier.

We learned over the years that tennis is a very "deal with it" kind of sport. Whether it is how things are priced, how players are selected for events, to having to get from one continent to another in just a few hours if you want that ITF tourny spot. Just have to deal with it. Tennis ain't for sissies (and tougher for fiscally challenged) that's for sure.

[anhuynh16]

I practice from 3:00 to 7:00 everyday and I'm in 8th grade... ,not sure why you cant fit in tennis?

[BirdieLane]

Originally Posted by ga tennis

I am getting frustrated!!! My daughter goes to public school and doesnt get home till after 4;00. When she gets home she is usually tired from a long day at school. All of her tennis friends are homeschooled. She usually practices around an hour and a half a day and tournaments on the weekend. Im just concerned that with her going to regular school she is not getting enough time on the court. I wanna put her with her academy full time but cant afford it. So my question to you guys is do you think an hour and a half is enough for a girl that just turned 11????

GA, To a certain extent, with a lot of hard work and dedication, most players will 'get there' eventually. Just not on the same timetable. ('There' being their ultimate level or tennis ceiling.) The most important thing is that the players passion for the game is driving them to excel by working hard and staying mentally fresh.

Lets clone a junior player and consider a few training cases for those clones age 9 thru 13:

Train 6 days a week:

Clone A: 4 hrs of tennis everyday
Clone B: 2 hrs of tennis, two hours of soccer
Clone C: 2 hrs of tennis, one hour of fitness, one hour of tennis channel

Predictions? I think it's extremely hard to say. If you make an assumption that a player will peak after x hours (i.e. 10,000 hr rule) you could argue each clone will reach peak at some point and be relatively 'even', it's just that Clone A will get there first. But is that the goal?

Clone A will definitely have more success in 12s and 14s but there will be a question of burnout/freshness and also injuries and overuse. But Sharapova and Vika make a good case for this route.

Clone B will take longer, but perhaps an increased athletic ceiling, along with increased mental freshness and more resistence to injury could ultimately result in a better player. This player would be a lot fresher mentally at age 17 and 18 than Clone B who had been grinding 4 hrs a day since age 9. Note that Federer had to chose between soccer and tennis at age 12 I think. He would be best argument for this Clone.

Clone C is a slight spin on B. Not a ton of time on the court but also very focused and immersed in tennis. This player would be more mentally fresh than Clone A and possibly have a higher tennis IQ than Clone B because of obsession with not only playing, but also watching the game. I see this in many sports where kids that really watch and devour the game have significantly higher sport specific IQ than those that just play it. Hingis might be best example of this model.

At the end of the day, if the passion is there and the improvement is constant, you are doing it right. But also please remember...the joy is truly in the journey...not the destination.

[ga tennis]

Originally Posted by BirdieLane

GA, To a certain extent, with a lot of hard work and dedication, most players will 'get there' eventually. Just not on the same timetable. ('There' being their ultimate level or tennis ceiling.) The most important thing is that the players passion for the game is driving them to excel by working hard and staying mentally fresh.

Lets clone a junior player and consider a few training cases for those clones age 9 thru 13:

Train 6 days a week:

Clone A: 4 hrs of tennis everyday
Clone B: 2 hrs of tennis, two hours of soccer
Clone C: 2 hrs of tennis, one hour of fitness, one hour of tennis channel

Predictions? I think it's extremely hard to say. If you make an assumption that a player will peak after x hours (i.e. 10,000 hr rule) you could argue each clone will reach peak at some point and be relatively 'even', it's just that Clone A will get there first. But is that the goal?

Clone A will definitely have more success in 12s and 14s but there will be a question of burnout/freshness and also injuries and overuse. But Sharapova and Vika make a good case for this route.

Clone B will take longer, but perhaps an increased athletic ceiling, along with increased mental freshness and more resistence to injury could ultimately result in a better player. This player would be a lot fresher mentally at age 17 and 18 than Clone B who had been grinding 4 hrs a day since age 9. Note that Federer had to chose between soccer and tennis at age 12 I think. He would be best argument for this Clone.

Clone C is a slight spin on B. Not a ton of time on the court but also very focused and immersed in tennis. This player would be more mentally fresh than Clone A and possibly have a higher tennis IQ than Clone B because of obsession with not only playing, but also watching the game. I see this in many sports where kids that really watch and devour the game have significantly higher sport specific IQ than those that just play it. Hingis might be best example of this model.

At the end of the day, if the passion is there and the improvement is constant, you are doing it right. But also please remember...the joy is truly in the journey...not the destination.

GREAT POST!!!!!

[TCF]

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[maggmaster]

Isn't this why most experts recommend an escalating practice schedule through childhood into the teenage years? Something like 8 hours per week at 8 moving slowly up to 15 or 20 hours per week at 16-18?

[NLBwell]

There are two issues here:
One is the miserable state of our education system, where assigning massive amounts of homework is done instead of actually teaching the kids. There is actually a negative correlation between high levels of homework in elementary and middle school and student achievement at the end of high school.
The second is the amount of tennis that needs to be played to be a top player at about 18 years old, and the desire to play that much. When I think how much basketball the NBA players played to get to that level, I would say very few tennis players have played that much tennis. I played basketball up to 5 hours every day for much of the year about 4 to 10pm - usually breaking for dinner - with other kids in my neighborhood. Of course, none of us could make even the high-school team because the kids from the other side of town were so much better (#1 ranked high school team in the nation, and the best of the players didn't go to school at all) - a couple of my friends did play in college. No one made us go out and play basketball that much, we did it because we loved playing and also because that was our society - go to the gym - play ball - hang out and relate to each other - even get in trouble together. If you can get a bunch of kids together who love tennis and are good at it, like a poster above is trying to do, it reinforces the love of the game and makes all the work more fun and self-directed (instead of parent-directed).

[hhollines]

Originally Posted by BirdieLane

GA, To a certain extent, with a lot of hard work and dedication, most players will 'get there' eventually. Just not on the same timetable. ('There' being their ultimate level or tennis ceiling.) The most important thing is that the players passion for the game is driving them to excel by working hard and staying mentally fresh.

Lets clone a junior player and consider a few training cases for those clones age 9 thru 13:

Train 6 days a week:

Clone A: 4 hrs of tennis everyday
Clone B: 2 hrs of tennis, two hours of soccer
Clone C: 2 hrs of tennis, one hour of fitness, one hour of tennis channel

Predictions? I think it's extremely hard to say. If you make an assumption that a player will peak after x hours (i.e. 10,000 hr rule) you could argue each clone will reach peak at some point and be relatively 'even', it's just that Clone A will get there first. But is that the goal?

Clone A will definitely have more success in 12s and 14s but there will be a question of burnout/freshness and also injuries and overuse. But Sharapova and Vika make a good case for this route.

Clone B will take longer, but perhaps an increased athletic ceiling, along with increased mental freshness and more resistence to injury could ultimately result in a better player. This player would be a lot fresher mentally at age 17 and 18 than Clone B who had been grinding 4 hrs a day since age 9. Note that Federer had to chose between soccer and tennis at age 12 I think. He would be best argument for this Clone.

Clone C is a slight spin on B. Not a ton of time on the court but also very focused and immersed in tennis. This player would be more mentally fresh than Clone A and possibly have a higher tennis IQ than Clone B because of obsession with not only playing, but also watching the game. I see this in many sports where kids that really watch and devour the game have significantly higher sport specific IQ than those that just play it. Hingis might be best example of this model.

At the end of the day, if the passion is there and the improvement is constant, you are doing it right. But also please remember...the joy is truly in the journey...not the destination.

Wow!!! Awesome post and I couldn't agree more. That's why there is no universal blue print. It must be individualized to your kid and based on what fuels the "love" for that kid and not based on what the parent imposes on the kid (My daughter would be a hybrid Clone B and C). My 12 yr. old daughter plays about 10 hrs. per week on average (but totally locked in and focused) . . . about 1 tournament every 4-6 weeks (a lot of practice matches). She is also a competitive Irish dancer. She has one of the lighter tennis schedules but her love continues to grow . . . I can't remember her not leaving the court smiling and happy.

If I forced Clone A's schedule on her, it would kill the love and ultimately she would either quit or, like some parents, I would have to force her to do it and eventually she would burn out (this could also have negative consequences for her life outside of tennis and after tennis; you can do serious long term damage to a young kid by living through them).

There's no secret sauce . . .the biggest mistake is parents forcing or imposing schedules on their kids . . .

[TCF]

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[TCF]

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[hhollines]

Originally Posted by TCF

hholines....after the last 2 weeks of seeing the other side, which is total tennis obsession, I am starting to agree with your philosophy more and more.

Thanks TCF. Of course, by no means do I have the answers but this is the saddest sport I've ever been involved with . . . if she didn't love this morbid sport, I'd sell her rackets tomorrow . . .

I may end up dead wrong but my wife and I decided to build her tennis program around her smile and love with the overall goal of developing her game (physically, mentally and technically) . . . that's it . . . for us, once we started doing that, we ended up doing crazy things that have nothing to do with points and rankings . . . it has been sobering b/c once we mentally separated and quit complaining about the overall U.S. junior tennis structure and just focused on what's best for her, the answers started to become pretty clear (for her) . . .

but, it's hard not getting sucked back in hence why I stay completely away from basically all tennis parents . . . almost all my daughters friends have nothing to do with tennis (and it has been so healthy).

[TCF]

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[BirdieLane]

Originally Posted by hhollines

Thanks TCF. Of course, by no means do I have the answers but this is the saddest sport I've ever been involved with . . . if she didn't love this morbid sport, I'd sell her rackets tomorrow . . .

I may end up dead wrong but my wife and I decided to build her tennis program around her smile and love with the overall goal of developing her game (physically, mentally and technically) . . . that's it . . . for us, once we started doing that, we ended up doing crazy things that have nothing to do with points and rankings . . . it has been sobering b/c once we mentally separated and quit complaining about the overall U.S. junior tennis structure and just focused on what's best for her, the answers started to become pretty clear (for her) . . .

but, it's hard not getting sucked back in hence why I stay completely away from basically all tennis parents . . . almost all my daughters friends have nothing to do with tennis (and it has been so healthy).

No way you are dead wrong if you are growing her passion while striving to give her such a stimulating and healthy environment and she's loving it and making continuous improvement. Great job and great perspective. (And I also agree in many ways with your 'saddest' sport impression.)

FYI, we are very similar to you, just a few years down the road. We live in snow state (indoor and no talent depth), just getting into 16s.

My kid is a Clone B path and while she splits her time with another sport, the result is a very fresh and hungry mind. No injuries. And athleticism that is a feature of her game.

So yes, you can definitely find your own path and compete at the very top without being in FL or going to an Academy at age 12.

[hhollines]

Originally Posted by BirdieLane

No way you are dead wrong if you are growing her passion while striving to give her such a stimulating and healthy environment and she's loving it and making continuous improvement. Great job and great perspective. (And I also agree in many ways with your 'saddest' sport impression.)

FYI, we are very similar to you, just a few years down the road. We live in snow state (indoor and no talent depth), just getting into 16s.

My kid is a Clone B path and while she splits her time with another sport, the result is a very fresh and hungry mind. No injuries. And athleticism that is a feature of her game.

So yes, you can definitely find your own path and compete at the very top without being in FL or going to an Academy at age 12.

Thanks so much. These are the stories that keep us going. It's so easy to doubt yourself when 99% of the folks are doing the same thing and you see how destructive it can be and/or you know it's not the right path for your family (+ so many people telling you they have the secret sauce).

So then you search to do it another way and to hear from folks like yourself that are a bit further down the road but can share that healthy perspective is so encouraging.

I also believe you can develop a player in a cold weather state and you don't have to ship your kid to an academy but I'm finding it takes incredible courage to break away from the norm . . . you are often the loner but I'm getting comfortable with that. It took us 1 yr. to finally have the courage to forget about points and rankings and make decisions for the right reasons.

I've been shocked at how often making the "right" decision for your child's development is in direct conflict with how the junior tennis system (rules and structure) is setup.

[TCF]

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[Bash and Crash]

Originally Posted by TCF

By the way, anyone have or had both a boy and girl who went through juniors? Are the boys and/or their parents as petty, passive aggressive, and jealous as the girls and/or their parents are? Even playing practice matches with other girls is a scene with them and the parents.

One word TCF, "yes". I have parents who wouldn't even let sons play practice matches because their future star may "lose", or they stand on the court and criticize or distract other kid so that their precious Johnny does well. Never ending, enjoy the journey!!

[TCF]

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[BirdieLane]

Originally Posted by TCF

By the way, anyone have or had both a boy and girl who went through juniors? Are the boys and/or their parents as petty, passive aggressive, and jealous as the girls and/or their parents are? Even playing practice matches with other girls is a scene with them and the parents.

I think it gets better as you get into 16s and 18s and the parents don't control everything anymore. (the players are texting and facebooking etc dispite the parents pettiness...) But I think girls are worse than boys. ATP vs WTA is same story.

Just keep doing what you are doing TCF... Play a few tourneys to make friends and find hitting partners and stay out of the cattiness. Encourage your girl to hit anytime anywhere with anyone.

Another tip is that when she is having a hit with another girl, try to watch as little as possible. Run errands or go have a hit yourself. Point is, let them enjoy each other and develop a friendship...rather than know they are under the microscope (your eye) and will have to answer for the tennis result. It is almost unbelievable how differently the kids interact if you stay and watch vs leave.

They might goof around a little more than you want, but the enjoyment and friendship forged is more than worth a little wasted time and goofing around.

One oasis for the kids is Intersectionals (16s). Only the top 3 or 4 from each section can go so it's pretty high level...BUT...ZERO parents for 5 days...just the kids hanging and playing all day. Several times when my daughter returned I've heard: "_____ is actually really nice!" (And I'm thrilled that the new USTA plan has 14s Inters...I hope it's same model...no parents and billeting together)