Finding my strokes after 20 years. Stroke video inside - Page 20

Greg G · 01-11-2013, 08:52 PM

Hmmm. That cocking back thing also creates the extra external rotation of the shoulder. Which explains why yesterday's drop feed swing was better in terms of SSC/ PTD position. Interesting!

Cheetah · 01-11-2013, 08:58 PM

try this:

do some shadow swings. take the racquet back like we discussed.
make your arm loose.
then make your arm looser.
then as your about to push off and swing forward make your arm looser.
even looser.
make your arm so loose that you can't even feel it. it should feel like it's not even there. like a piece of rope is connected to your shoulder. absolutely zero tension anywhere in your entire arm.
don't take the racquet back too far. do a more compact swing than what you are doing now. like 6 inches less takeback.
then while keeping your arm loose push off right leg and rotate.
don't use your arm at all. absolutely no arm.
just rotate and watch how fast the arm whips around.
it will be faster than your normal swing. even though it may feel weird because you are using NO ARM AT ALL the swing will still look pretty good if you filmed it. and it will be fast even with a regular speed rotation of the body.
do that a few times using no arm.
if you work on getting the racquet at the right angles at the end of the takeback you will find that it will move how you want it to during the forward swing.
Then try to feel the weight of the racquet head. not the racquet. just the weight of the head as you rotate forward. if you are loose and are rotating around the arm will lag and if you didn't take your racquet back too far (disconnected) then you will feel the racquet head tug on your shoulder and chest.

once you feel this pulling then you can use the arm for control. if you don't have this feeling and it feels like you are jerking the racquet or there's an abrupt jolt then your are doing it wrong and maybe takeback is too far.
at this point your chest should be just about facing the net but not quite. you'll be able to use the arm to do isr or pronation or radial dev etc if you want.

just try that. no arm. super loose. just rotate. get used to that feel. if you work on that you'll see your rhs will increase and you'll get ssc w/o thinking about it and your swing will look nice and smooth and whippy.

to do this you need to change your mindset from 'hitting w/ the arm' to 'hitting w/ the body'.
not easy but that's how it's done. you have to be relaxed.

Cheetah · 01-11-2013, 09:57 PM

forgot to add something.

when you swing forward don't go full speed. go slow to medium speed but on the slow side. then when you feel the racquet go backwards and the butt is pointing to the ball then go fast. otherwise your swing won't have the correct shape. it won't resemble a tennis swing at all. so go slow, loose, racquet falls back and head is pointing to back fence, you'll feel this, then accelerate. don't jerk or yank it at this point. just accelerate. as in build up speed. but quickly.

Greg G · 01-11-2013, 10:24 PM

Got it. Will shadow the stroke. Should be interesting

The shoulder rotation remains fast right?

Thanks!

Cheetah · 01-11-2013, 11:11 PM

wait. i forgot one thing. i was just trying out those instructions myself.
when you rotate try to lead with the elbow. so make a little bit of tension from the shoulder to the elbow. when you rotation you want the shoulder to the elbow to move together. try to imagine your are leading the swing w/ the elbow. then the elbow goes forward first. that's important. then the racquet head will kind of stay where it is since elbow to hand is very loose. it will stay where it is pretty much then as elbow keeps going forward the racquet head will flip (ssc).

so...
loose, no cocking back the wrist, neutral position setup, rotate, slight tension on upper arm to maintain swing shape.

and you don't have to rotate that fast. just a nice turn. like in that fed cincinnati practice vid. he's doing just what i'm saying here.

Greg G · 01-26-2013, 02:44 AM

Got scared by the elbow flaring up after going back to Tour Bite, so I took a couple of weeks off to rest it. Feels a lot better now! Went bacl to Black Widow with no issues. Will try TB at a lower tension, or maybe hybrid it with something like N.Vy.

Tried not to lean my head over to the right so much, and keep better balance. Also worked on getting the hitting arm looser. I still have a problem when moving to the right.

Loving my new (to me) Casio FC-150. Videos are much better quality now!

Crosscourt forehands, front 3/4 view:
http://youtu.be/2Tuw8LWWvS8
http://youtu.be/p6qYMpm1dLE

Crosscourt & Inside-out forehands, rear view:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...bMoTd8FA#t=27s

Slow motion video is awesome with the new cam!:

Crosscourt forehands, front 3/4 view:
http://youtu.be/2OJ4IlRpn4E

Crosscourt & Inside-out forehands, rear view:
http://youtu.be/vPHKWH-V_dU

Crosscourt side view:
http://youtu.be/7ojPe0KlrX4

Sorry for the long videos. Please try to go through them, I didn't cherry pick the footage, so it has all my common errors...

Feel free to comment guys!

Greg G · 01-28-2013, 01:02 AM

Playing with Kinovea, and took side by side frames with RF to cement in my mind what I need to do with the takeback. The video was synced to contact point...not sure I chose the right one to compare, I was moving left a bit to take the forehand, but anyway...

Cheetah · 01-28-2013, 02:02 AM

what 2 differences do you see?

Greg G · 01-28-2013, 02:08 AM

1. Still haven't completely gotten rid of the cocked wrist. Racquet head pointed too far back at end of takeback.
2. Forearm partially supinates
3. Balance is off. Footwork needs major work, including my following the rhythm of slower balls. Preparation a bit late.

Having said that, keeping the arm even more relaxed has helped quite a bit, if you watch the videos. More easy power, and the arc of the shot has improved. Feels a LOT better than 2 weeks ago.

Cheetah · 01-28-2013, 02:12 AM

no ptd
your racquet goes behind your body wta style. fed's stays on the same side the entire time.

Greg G · 01-28-2013, 02:19 AM

Yes, I know. Hard to change, even if I feel I'm doing better, video disproves it. Need to get to the unit turn and just let it drop. I am fantastic at shadow swinging it, but it all goes away on court. I was actually working on that today, shadow swinging with my back to the wall, to try to shorten the backswing and keep the racquet on the right.

Maybe next time I'll put the left hand at the top of the racquet. That'll ensure a PTD. Keep it there till I break the habit.

Cheetah · 01-28-2013, 02:20 AM

yes it's hard to change.

Greg G · 01-28-2013, 02:36 AM

So I should stop the takeback at the top picture then let it drop without any wrist movment? The bottom one has the forearm too supinated already? Or the lower one, but with the buttcap visible...

EDIT: d'oh the answer is in the fed pictures above, LOL.

Greg G · 02-02-2013, 03:00 AM

Just played a set of doubles today. Just focused on contact in front with a loose arm and a shorter backswing. The forehand felt pretty good when hitting, and the ball looked like it had a heavy quality to it, judging from the way it bounced on the other side. Didn't stay at the back too much, so this is the footage I had, including the return of serve.

Still have minimal PTD (!) So frustrating...

http://youtu.be/pR7m-QzcI2s

Slow motion, annotated with where I feel the issue is...I drrew a line where I think I should keep the palm down instead of rotating. I forgot about my great idea of keeping the left hand on the top of the racquet face...
http://youtu.be/y7QocsUhdsY

02-02-2013, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg G

Just played a set of doubles today. Just focused on contact in front with a loose arm and a shorter backswing. The forehand felt pretty good when hitting, and the ball looked like it had a heavy quality to it, judging from the way it bounced on the other side. Didn't stay at the back too much, so this is the footage I had, including the return of serve.

Still have minimal PTD (!) So frustrating...

http://youtu.be/pR7m-QzcI2s

Slow motion, annotated with where I feel the issue is...I drrew a line where I think I should keep the palm down instead of rotating. I forgot about my great idea of keeping the left hand on the top of the racquet face...
http://youtu.be/y7QocsUhdsY

Perhaps instead of focusing on your palm, you may want to try and focus on the buttcap of the racquet. (different things resonate with people) In the downswing always "hide the buttcap from the line of the ball. Trust me, when you begin to pull on the racquet, it will "flip" and align properly. In fact, this is one of the keys to maximizing stretch shorten.. the quick internal to external rotation of the arm.

Greg G · 02-08-2013, 11:05 PM

OK. 20 pages and 20,000+ views, I better have something good already!

Worked on the takeback and SSC today...after 3 hours of doubles. So please forgive my legs. Concentrated on keeping the backswing short and on my right side. I do think I managed to trim down the takeback and get a somewhat better PTD position, though I suppose I could hide the butt more at the end of the takeback. But at least I'm not getting into the supinated position way before contact!

Back view:
http://youtu.be/3N4berCOZTI

I seem to get the hang of it at this point. It almost feels like a sidearm throw. Hit it right, there's easy power. If I relaxed my concentration, the old wrist action would creep in. Dang this is hard!:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...erCOZTI#t=114s

Side view:
http://youtu.be/cgvngfJvizg

This looks like the best one there:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...ngfJvizg#t=89s

Gonna keep working on it. Comment away!

onehandbh · 02-09-2013, 04:46 AM

You seem to have much better balance when hitting with a closed or
neutral stance and/or stepping into the ball (vs when more open).

You might consider modeling your forehand after Soderling's rather than
Fed's

Greg G · 02-09-2013, 06:07 AM

Well this was taken after about 3 hours of play and 45 minutes of drills, so my legs were shot. Balance is a bit better in the previous video I posted. I would prefer to be able to hit from multiple stances as the situation dictates, but given enough time to set up, I do prefer the semiopen stance. Sometimes I stay too open.

Soderling has too long a swing for me, am trying to shorten it up for easier timing/consistency. The takeback in my last vid struck me as more Agassi than Fed, I think...like here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnnKt_SeJ6s

Here's a real time video, with me holding the edge of the racquet face to shorten the swing:
http://youtu.be/g_N3-Tk8cFU

Links to useful stuff I placed here for easy reference...

Found this video today...perhaps I do need to raise the right elbow a bit more...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnhtMQVKUOU

Hand fed dead ball drill might help:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR5VBz8amtg

02-09-2013, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg G

Well this was taken after about 3 hours of play and 45 minutes of drills, so my legs were shot. Balance is a bit better in the previous video I posted. I would prefer to be able to hit from multiple stances as the situation dictates, but given enough time to set up, I do prefer the semiopen stance. Sometimes I stay too open.

Soderling has too long a swing for me, am trying to shorten it up for easier timing/consistency. The takeback in my last vid struck me as more Agassi than Fed, I think...like here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnnKt_SeJ6s

Here's a real time video, with me holding the edge of the racquet face to shorten the swing:
http://youtu.be/g_N3-Tk8cFU

Links to useful stuff I placed here for easy reference...

Found this video today...perhaps I do need to raise the right elbow a bit more...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnhtMQVKUOU

Hand fed dead ball drill might help:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR5VBz8amtg

It could help, but it may not. Even with an elevated elbow position, (and i think your's is fine), if the arm rotates externally, the elbow is going to drop and slot, and the racquet head will begin to "lead" back...no bueno. This is the crux of teh problem in your case. You're getting there though.

Greg G · 02-09-2013, 07:15 AM

Thanks! You did see the slow motion vids in post 396? I think I got it a few times

01-11-2013, 08:52 PM	#381
Greg G Semi-Pro Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 590	Hmmm. That cocking back thing also creates the extra external rotation of the shoulder. Which explains why yesterday's drop feed swing was better in terms of SSC/ PTD position. Interesting! Last edited by Greg G : 01-11-2013 at 08:56 PM.

01-11-2013, 08:58 PM	#382
Cheetah Hall Of Fame Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,243	try this: do some shadow swings. take the racquet back like we discussed. make your arm loose. then make your arm looser. then as your about to push off and swing forward make your arm looser. even looser. make your arm so loose that you can't even feel it. it should feel like it's not even there. like a piece of rope is connected to your shoulder. absolutely zero tension anywhere in your entire arm. don't take the racquet back too far. do a more compact swing than what you are doing now. like 6 inches less takeback. then while keeping your arm loose push off right leg and rotate. don't use your arm at all. absolutely no arm. just rotate and watch how fast the arm whips around. it will be faster than your normal swing. even though it may feel weird because you are using NO ARM AT ALL the swing will still look pretty good if you filmed it. and it will be fast even with a regular speed rotation of the body. do that a few times using no arm. if you work on getting the racquet at the right angles at the end of the takeback you will find that it will move how you want it to during the forward swing. Then try to feel the weight of the racquet head. not the racquet. just the weight of the head as you rotate forward. if you are loose and are rotating around the arm will lag and if you didn't take your racquet back too far (disconnected) then you will feel the racquet head tug on your shoulder and chest. once you feel this pulling then you can use the arm for control. if you don't have this feeling and it feels like you are jerking the racquet or there's an abrupt jolt then your are doing it wrong and maybe takeback is too far. at this point your chest should be just about facing the net but not quite. you'll be able to use the arm to do isr or pronation or radial dev etc if you want. just try that. no arm. super loose. just rotate. get used to that feel. if you work on that you'll see your rhs will increase and you'll get ssc w/o thinking about it and your swing will look nice and smooth and whippy. to do this you need to change your mindset from 'hitting w/ the arm' to 'hitting w/ the body'. not easy but that's how it's done. you have to be relaxed. __________________ Yonex VCore 100s - SW 351 6pts HL Tour Bite / N.VY 16 @ 51lbs Last edited by Cheetah : 01-11-2013 at 09:01 PM.

01-11-2013, 09:57 PM	#383
Cheetah Hall Of Fame Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,243	forgot to add something. when you swing forward don't go full speed. go slow to medium speed but on the slow side. then when you feel the racquet go backwards and the butt is pointing to the ball then go fast. otherwise your swing won't have the correct shape. it won't resemble a tennis swing at all. so go slow, loose, racquet falls back and head is pointing to back fence, you'll feel this, then accelerate. don't jerk or yank it at this point. just accelerate. as in build up speed. but quickly. __________________ Yonex VCore 100s - SW 351 6pts HL Tour Bite / N.VY 16 @ 51lbs

01-11-2013, 11:11 PM	#385
Cheetah Hall Of Fame Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,243	wait. i forgot one thing. i was just trying out those instructions myself. when you rotate try to lead with the elbow. so make a little bit of tension from the shoulder to the elbow. when you rotation you want the shoulder to the elbow to move together. try to imagine your are leading the swing w/ the elbow. then the elbow goes forward first. that's important. then the racquet head will kind of stay where it is since elbow to hand is very loose. it will stay where it is pretty much then as elbow keeps going forward the racquet head will flip (ssc). so... loose, no cocking back the wrist, neutral position setup, rotate, slight tension on upper arm to maintain swing shape. and you don't have to rotate that fast. just a nice turn. like in that fed cincinnati practice vid. he's doing just what i'm saying here. __________________ Yonex VCore 100s - SW 351 6pts HL Tour Bite / N.VY 16 @ 51lbs

01-26-2013, 02:44 AM	#386
Greg G Semi-Pro Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 590	Got scared by the elbow flaring up after going back to Tour Bite, so I took a couple of weeks off to rest it. Feels a lot better now! Went bacl to Black Widow with no issues. Will try TB at a lower tension, or maybe hybrid it with something like N.Vy. Tried not to lean my head over to the right so much, and keep better balance. Also worked on getting the hitting arm looser. I still have a problem when moving to the right. Loving my new (to me) Casio FC-150. Videos are much better quality now! Crosscourt forehands, front 3/4 view: http://youtu.be/2Tuw8LWWvS8 http://youtu.be/p6qYMpm1dLE Crosscourt & Inside-out forehands, rear view: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...bMoTd8FA#t=27s Slow motion video is awesome with the new cam!: Crosscourt forehands, front 3/4 view: http://youtu.be/2OJ4IlRpn4E Crosscourt & Inside-out forehands, rear view: http://youtu.be/vPHKWH-V_dU Crosscourt side view: http://youtu.be/7ojPe0KlrX4 Sorry for the long videos. Please try to go through them, I didn't cherry pick the footage, so it has all my common errors... Feel free to comment guys! Last edited by Greg G : 01-26-2013 at 03:06 AM.