Tomic worst athlete ever?

[GoaLaSSo]

His movement is pretty good from what I have seen. He takes pretty large steps though, which makes it look a bit clunkier to spectators.

[corners]

Originally Posted by BeHappy

Of any ATP top 100 professional that is.

110mph serve and he cannot move.

I think he moves very well considering his size. He has an awkwardness about his movements but I think that deceives: I think he moves more quickly and changes directions better than you'd think watching him. He's the type of player that looks a little like they are in slow motion OR like they are not in a hurry. And a player who can beat guys in the top 100 while looking like he's not in a hurry is frightening.

The serve is week though, that's for sure. And it kinda looks like he'd need to revamp his technique to get into the 130s like he should be able to, given his size. I doubt he'd risk making radical technical changes at this age, though.

[Relinquis]

Originally Posted by always_crosscourt

It's the opposite - why do you think the NFL recruits based almost exclusively on stats such as 40 yard dash, max squat, max deadlift, 225 bench press test and vertical jump height?

It's because they know that these qualities are the most important aspects of any sport. Select athletes that are good at these, and the rest will follow. Skills, tactics and vision are secondary and can always be developed later.

tennis is not the nfl.

how do you think federer would fare against the current top 10 american tennis players in those exercises/stats that you mention? i'm pretty sure more than half will beat him stats wise, but on a tennis court none of them stand a chance.

anyway, back to tomic. a previous poster mentioned something about him being fit/healthy! he's 20, how can he not be fit/healthy?!

[UltimateBombero]

I saw his match vs Kevin Anderson yesterday and his forehand looked very weird..Can't really describe it.

[Sid_Vicious]

Originally Posted by always_crosscourt

Select athletes that are good at these, and the rest will follow. Skills, tactics and vision are secondary and can always be developed later.

That is rubbish. Skills, tactics, and vision can certainly not be developed later. Any rational person knows that the male specimens from your fantasies (4 second 40 yard dash, 500 lbs bench press, 60 inch vertical jump) would never be able to hit a tennis ball as crisply and perfectly as Nalbandian no matter how much training they receive. Fortunately, most tennis coaches are not idiots, so they don't go around looking for grown men with huge biceps to develop into future tennis talents.

[Lawn Tennis]

Tomic can hit 125+ regularly

[corners]

Originally Posted by always_crosscourt

It's the opposite - why do you think the NFL recruits based almost exclusively on stats such as 40 yard dash, max squat, max deadlift, 225 bench press test and vertical jump height?

It's because they know that these qualities are the most important aspects of any sport. Select athletes that are good at these, and the rest will follow. Skills, tactics and vision are secondary and can always be developed later.

Actually, you didn't list the NFL tests that are most relevant to tennis: The first ten yard split of the 40 yard dash, the three cone drill and the 20-yard shuttle. All three test short-distance speed and change of direction ability. Vertical jump is probably the best single indicator of lower-body explosive power, so that is a good one. The best performers in these four tests in the NFL are cornerbacks, and I believe that someday we'll see an athlete that could have been a top NFL cornerback choose tennis instead, and he will transform the sport. These guys have explosiveness, speed and agility that has never been seen on a tennis court.

You're right that Tomic is nowhere near that class of athlete. But neither was John McEnroe. Speed and power are important but the gifts of touch, anticipation and court craft are even more important in tennis.

(Squat, deadlift and bench press would not be good tests for tennis athleticism as very high scores in those tests would indicate excess muscles mass which would make a player less efficient over a long match.)

[always_crosscourt]

Originally Posted by corners

Actually, you didn't list the NFL tests that are most relevant to tennis: The first ten yard split of the 40 yard dash, the three cone drill and the 20-yard shuttle. All three test short-distance speed and change of direction ability. Vertical jump is probably the best single indicator of lower-body explosive power, so that is a good one. The best performers in these four tests in the NFL are cornerbacks, and I believe that someday we'll see an athlete that could have been a top NFL cornerback choose tennis instead, and he will transform the sport. These guys have explosiveness, speed and agility that has never been seen on a tennis court.

You're right that Tomic is nowhere near that class of athlete. But neither was John McEnroe. Speed and power are important but the gifts of touch, anticipation and court craft are even more important in tennis.

(Squat, deadlift and bench press would not be good tests for tennis athleticism as very high scores in those tests would indicate excess muscles mass which would make a player less efficient over a long match.)

That is only the fault of the pathetic pool of talent that tennis has to draw from where all the best go to the NFL and NBA, and tennis gets the leftovers who couldn't have made it in any other sport.

John McEnroe would never have been allowed to dominate in the manner he did if tennis took the best athletes, because then it wouldn't be long before a player came along who had volleys just as deft as his, but with the athleticism of an NFL wide receiver to go with it - and McEnroe would have gotten thrashed.

It makes me sick how everyone thinks Nadal is such a great athlete, when, compared to athletes of pretty much any other sport, he would be flat out appalling in any of those basic indicators of athleticism (bench, dead, squat, vert jump, 40 yard dash) I listed.

[joeri888]

tennis is not the nfl.

how do you think federer would fare against the current top 10 american tennis players in those exercises/stats that you mention? i'm pretty sure more than half will beat him stats wise, but on a tennis court none of them stand a chance.

Half? I think 99% beat him. And on a tenniscourt, they wont win a point most likely.

Originally Posted by always_crosscourt

It's the opposite - why do you think the NFL recruits based almost exclusively on stats such as 40 yard dash, max squat, max deadlift, 225 bench press test and vertical jump height?

It's because they know that these qualities are the most important aspects of any sport. Select athletes that are good at these, and the rest will follow. Skills, tactics and vision are secondary and can always be developed later.

With a game like American foot(?)ball which asks for little special qualities other than being a great athlete, it's very different. What do you think is more special about Federer and Nadal?

1) the way they can hit a forehand?
2) their 40 yard dash, squat, deadlift, benchpress or vertical jump?


My whole point is that tennis, just like actual football is way more about skill than about athleticism. Skill you don't learn at age 20, you just don't.

There's a lot that can be improved in terms of fitness and strength, but some things you'll never learn after your 8th birthday. It's almost like selecting the next Mozart solely on fingerlength and flexibility or something.

It can very well be that they do it that way in AF, I don't know much about AF, but I think in tennis things are very different.

That is rubbish. Skills, tactics, and vision can certainly not be developed later. Any rational person knows that the male specimens from your fantasies (4 second 40 yard dash, 500 lbs bench press, 60 inch vertical jump) would never be able to hit a tennis ball as crisply and perfectly as Nalbandian no matter how much training they receive. Fortunately, most tennis coaches are not idiots, so they don't go around looking for grown men with huge biceps to develop into future tennis talents.

Exactly.

[joeri888]

Originally Posted by always_crosscourt

That is only the fault of the pathetic pool of talent that tennis has to draw from where all the best go to the NFL and NBA, and tennis gets the leftovers who couldn't have made it in any other sport.

John McEnroe would never have been allowed to dominate in the manner he did if tennis took the best athletes, because then it wouldn't be long before a player came along who had volleys just as deft as his, but with the athleticism of an NFL wide receiver to go with it - and McEnroe would have gotten thrashed.

It makes me sick how everyone thinks Nadal is such a great athlete, when, compared to athletes of pretty much any other sport, he would be flat out appalling in any of those basic indicators of athleticism (bench, dead, squat, vert jump, 40 yard dash) I listed.

Total BS. Tennis has a WORLDWIDE pool of talent , while NFL have to do with only Americans. I'm pretty sure that worldwide, a lot more kids are into tennis than into American football. You are right that the tennisplayers will be nowhere near as strong and maybe not even as fast (though I think Nadal is pretty quick and so is Djokovic) but that's because tennis requires other things. It's actually a skillsport.

If you are serious about this, you have no idea. A tennisplayer that starts playing at age 10 can already never ever become worldclass I think.

Btw, which of your "Basic indicators" actually takes flexibility, interval speed, endurance, balance, agility and quickness to change direction into account. All PHYSICAL attributes you need to be a great tennisplayer, but not within your basic indicators.

[always_crosscourt]

Originally Posted by joeri888

Half? I think 99% beat him. And on a tenniscourt, they wont win a point most likely.



With a game like American foot(?)ball which asks for little special qualities other than being a great athlete, it's very different. What do you think is more special about Federer and Nadal?

1) the way they can hit a forehand?
2) their 40 yard dash, squat, deadlift, benchpress or vertical jump?


My whole point is that tennis, just like actual football is way more about skill than about athleticism. Skill you don't learn at age 20, you just don't.

There's a lot that can be improved in terms of fitness and strength, but some things you'll never learn after your 8th birthday. It's almost like selecting the next Mozart solely on fingerlength and flexibility or something.

It can very well be that they do it that way in AF, I don't know much about AF, but I think in tennis things are very different.



Exactly.

What does that mean?

[joeri888]

Originally Posted by always_crosscourt

What does that mean?

football. Not American, but worldwide. The one you refer to as soccer, I think. The actual meant to say that it's actually played with your foot mostly.

[Timbo's hopeless slice]

lo @ the idiotic comments regarding the NFL.

what a bunch of one trick ponies!

fun to watch, but a niche sport that nobody cares about anywhere else..

as for Tomic..

http://youtu.be/g0NSjem4exY?t=1m39s

just watch it.
(y'all are talking about a version of Tomic that is obsolete, it is like talking about Federer's on court tantrums and mental fragility, it was true when he was 18..)

[President]

He's definitely not the best athlete but he has great tennis instincts and weight-training can make him bigger, stronger, and faster. In fact he already looks to have made some improvements in that area over the offseason.

[Sid_Vicious]

Originally Posted by Timbo's hopeless slice

lo @ the idiotic comments regarding the NFL.

what a bunch of one trick ponies!

fun to watch, but a niche sport that nobody cares about anywhere else..

as for Tomic..

http://youtu.be/g0NSjem4exY?t=1m39s

just watch it.
(y'all are talking about a version of Tomic that is obsolete, it is like talking about Federer's on court tantrums and mental fragility, it was true when he was 18..)

Wow. That was incredible!

[Timbo's hopeless slice]

ye, you only really need to watch the first point, he isn't the same player, eh?

[Goosehead]

Originally Posted by always_crosscourt

It's the opposite - why do you think the NFL recruits based almost exclusively on stats such as 40 yard dash, max squat, max deadlift, 225 bench press test and vertical jump height?

It's because they know that these qualities are the most important aspects of any sport. Select athletes that are good at these, and the rest will follow. Skills, tactics and vision are secondary and can always be developed later.

no it dosnt..just because someone is fast, muscular, strong, or superfit dosnt mean they will be good at any particular sport.

[Legend of Borg]

I feel like the Tomic mania is going too far.

Someone needs to put the kid in a dumpster.

[veroniquem]

That's a bit extreme. Not enough talented youngsters as it is...

[pvaudio]

Originally Posted by always_crosscourt

It's the opposite - why do you think the NFL recruits based almost exclusively on stats such as 40 yard dash, max squat, max deadlift, 225 bench press test and vertical jump height?

It's because they know that these qualities are the most important aspects of any sport. Select athletes that are good at these, and the rest will follow. Skills, tactics and vision are secondary and can always be developed later.

Vision is not a secondary skill by a long shot. Skill and strategy are learned. Vision is gifted.