Who is the female Tennis GOAT?

[cknobman]

Steffi is an easy pick.

Sorry but in a GOAT comparison I tend to be obejctive and go off what you did and not what you could/should have done.

[nadal_GOAT_king]

Originally Posted by LittleTinGoddess

Who cares? Watching women's sports is like watching the Special Olympics.

Might be true with today's mindless ball bashers. But have you ever watched women's tennis from at least back in the '90s?

To answer the op, I pick Graf. Sure, we could go and on again about the 'what ifs' but still, Seles never did dent Graf's title count. 'What ifs' don't count. /end

[TahoeTennis]

Evert won at least 1 grand slam in 13 straight years.

GOAT!

[pvaudio]

Are you guys serious? It's not even a contest for Navratilova. Graf? She had zero competition. Martina was almost as successful in singles but yet won a few dozen GS titles overall because she could play every single type of tennis at the absolute highest level. She is also the only player ever to win a GS title in FOUR different decades. So again, seriously? Graf?

[pvaudio]

Not to mention that she won more singles and doubles titles than any person to ever play the sport, has a career singles record of 1,442–219 and in her GS triumphs pretty much only beat players who are also on the potentials list here.

The poll results are about right. It is really only a 2 horse race between Graf and Serena these days. A poll done outside this forum which is heavily anti Serena would be even closer between them than this one though. A better poll is who is 3rd best all time between the remaining players.

As for a Navratilova supporter saying Graf had no competition, dont make me laugh. Navratilova's 83-86 era was the weakest era in womens tennis history probably. Evert from 83-86 was the same ages as Navratilova herself from 86-89 so if one says Graf faced an "aging Navratilova" then likewise all Navratilova faced was an "aging Evert" when she won almost all her slams, and unless Evert is really >>>>>>>>> Navratilova overall, a 29-32 year old Navratilova who was a super late bloomer who won only 2 slams before turning 25 had sure as heck better be better at those ages than the former teenage phenom Chris Evert. Then there is Mandilikova who had most of her best tennis at the tail end of the Chris era (80-81), who won 3 of her 4 career slams at slams missing 2 of the big 3 women at the time which was largely the norm for the Australian until the mid 80s, and the French due to WTT in the mid 70s to early 80s (1980 Australian Austin and Evert missing, 1987 Australian Graf and Evert missing, 1981 French Austin and Navratilova missing), and who at absolute most generous is roughly on par with Sanchez Vicario (I only say this is even possible since Sanchez greatly benefited from the Seles stabbing). I know some will dispute that part only being blinded by Hana's incredible talent and highs she occasionaly reached on her 3% of the time great days, which indeed is far above Sanchez's, and ignore her wretched consistency and all her bad losses even in her prime years, which Sanchez Vicario rarely had. Anyway even as far as ability to produce big wins, Sanchez beat Graf 4 times in slams, and gave her 2 other of the all time greatest matches (95 Wimbledon, 96 French) which is equally impressive to anything Hana did. After that you have Shriver, Turnbull, and briefly Jaeger, who are vastly inferior to the likes of Sabatini, Pierce, and Novotna. Shriver in 2 of her best years ever played a young Graf in slams and lost 6-2, 6-1, 6-2, 6-0, and 6-4, 6-3 in her only respectable showing. The remainder of the top 10 was mostly made up of either 3rd string Germans like Hanika, Kohde Kilsch, Bunge, or third string Americans like Gaudesek, Potter, Rinaldi, who a 15 year old Graf was already beating by scores like 6-2, 6-1. The zenith of Martina's dominance says it all. 1983 her best year ever with only 1 loss. The 4 slam finals this year were Jasouvec vs Evert, Jaeger vs Navratilova, Evert vs Navratilova, Jordan vs Evert. Apart from Evert vs Navratilova all pretty much jokes that look like they should be 3rd or 4th round matches, and 3 of the 4 saw the loser win 4 games or less too. Some great WTA that was, LOL! Navratilova even had to defend the state of the WTA from agressive reporters at her press conference at the 83 U.S Open and ran out in tears in frusteration at the end of it.

Anyway based on what she faced from 1999-2007 overall alone Serena's competition >>>>>>>> Graf's or Navratilova's anyway. Both ladies had joke competition compared to what Serena for the longest while (not now but most of her career) faced. 1999-2003 had the deepest ladies field in history and Serena was the Queen Bee and won 7 slams, including the Serena Slam of 4 in a row at one point amongst that field.

[bjsnider]

On clay there's absolutely no question it's Evert, who owns a bunch of untouchable records there. On other surfaces it's less clear. Then there's the question "if you had to pick one player to play for your life, who would it be?" In which case I might pick 1990-ish Seles.

Originally Posted by bjsnider

Then there's the question "if you had to pick one player to play for your life, who would it be?" In which case I might pick 1990-ish Seles.

Well if the match was on grass vs any legitimate opponent, or the match was on any surface bar clay vs a Williams sister, then get your coffin ready.

[DropShotArtist]

Originally Posted by bjsnider

Then there's the question "if you had to pick one player to play for your life, who would it be?" In which case I might pick 1990-ish Seles.

This makes sense.

[bjsnider]

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi

Well if the match was on grass vs any legitimate opponent, or the match was on any surface bar clay vs a Williams sister, then get your coffin ready.

Well, I had to pick one player, not a bunch of players with caveats. You can introduce whatifs and qualifications into any pick, because there's no player that didn't have some weakness at all. They're all human. My memories of Seles in the pre-stabbing era were that opponents were swiftly double-bagelled out of tournaments.

Originally Posted by bjsnider

Well, I had to pick one player, not a bunch of players with caveats. You can introduce whatifs and qualifications into any pick, because there's no player that didn't have some weakness at all. They're all human. My memories of Seles in the pre-stabbing era were that opponents were swiftly double-bagelled out of tournaments.

LOL which opponents were those, must have been early round opponents (which before the late 90s always sucked in womens tennis anyway). Even back then she never dominated Graf, Navratilova, Sabatini, Capriati (she actually lost a combined 11 matches to that quartet in 91-early 93 alone, her 2.2 year all time peak, in something like only 30 combined matches), or Novotna to that extent, and rarely even her pigeons like Fernandez, Sanchez, Maleeva zzzsters to that extent either. In terms of sheer destructiveness and domination Graf, Navratilova, and Serena were scarier at their best than Seles at hers IMO. I dont think Seles even ever won a single slam without dropping a set, and in 3 of her 6 slam wins in 91-92 she was 2 points from losing in a match.

[OrangePower]

Overall career (singles only): Graf
Overall career (considering dubs as well): Navratilova
Peak level of play: S. Williams

[Gorecki]

hahaha loveit

Martina and Crissy behind The Crip Lady...

only in this place!!!!

Hardly only in this place. Nobody talks Evert as a GOAT candidate even these days. She is never even brought up. Even she herself never dares to suggest herself as the possible female tennis GOAT, referencing at different times Navratilova, Graf, and and now Serena instead. McEnroe, Carillo, King, Shriver, Collins, Drysdale, Evert herself, have all recently began to suggest Serena might be the best of all time. For once on Planet **** Warehouse a poll is somewhat close to reality. In the real World the GOAT race is clearly down to Graf vs Serena at this point, with Navratilova an outside choice as well. The rest (Court, Evert, etc..) are major all time greats, but as far as who is THE female GOAT they dont even figure in anymore, just like they dont in this poll either apparently.

[SystemicAnomaly]

^ No, pretty much just only in this place. Don't let Evert's modesty diminish her standing as one of the GOATs of the Open era. Lists outside of the TW forums in 2012 & 2011 usually place Chrissy at #3 or #4 while Serena places somewhere between #4 and #6. Tennis Channel's series on the 100 Greatest of All Time (both men & women) put Serena at #14 (and the 6th woman). A small sampling of some recent lists:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_Greatest_of_All_Time
http://www.WorldTennisMagazine.com/archives/7935
http://sports.yahoo.com/tennis/blog/...urn=ten,256242
http://www.************.com/greatest-female-tennis-players-of-all-time

OrangePower (above) had it right. If we are just talking raw talent and "peak level of play", then Serena unquestionably places at or near the top. However, when most of us consider the greatest women players of the Open Era (or of all time), we consider a more complete body of work -- the total accomplishments or achievements of the top players and not just their peak play or their potential. Players like Steffi, Martina N, Chrissy and Margaret paid their dues week after week, year after year.

Even if we only consider Grand Slams Singles events (which I do not), Chrissy (with 18 ) is still ahead Serena (with 15). Chris has 305 Grand Slam singles match wins to her credit compared to 225 for Serena. If we look at their larger bodies of work, we see a much greater differential. Chris had 157 singles titles out of 208 finals. Compare this to Serena's 47 titles out of 62 finals. Chris had the 3rd highest weeks at #1 with 262 weeks. Serena is #6 with less than half Chris' number at 123 weeks. While Serena may be closing the gap on a few of these, she still has quite a way to go before she equals the achievements of Chris Evert and Margaret Court.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTA_Tour_records
.

[DTL]

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi

Well if the match was on grass vs any legitimate opponent, or the match was on any surface bar clay vs a Williams sister, then get your coffin ready.

I am in agreement with this. Outside of clay, I would unhesitatingly pick Serena Williams if I needed a player to play for my life.

[jwbarrientos]

Martina
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..
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Graff

[kiki]

Hingis 1997 was magic.

[fluffyyelloballz]

Navratilova.
She revolutionised tennis when she turned her career round and became an athlete to rival the very best. She won Wimbledon nine times. She played into her mid thirties, still making Major finals. She had a rival most of her career in Evert who is also one of the greatest ever. She won 167 titles and has the record for longest winning streak.

[xanctus]

Serena, she's the man!