Cristophe Rochus: Doping rampant, mentions Nadal and Soderling

[SLD76]

Originally Posted by Mustard

But Lance Armstrong didn't fail a doping test. So where's innocent until proven guilty? The system is full of plea bargains, thereby corrupting the whole process. I don't see how any conviction can be safe in such an environment as that. I read in a newspaper yesterday that the USADA wanted to do a deal with Armstrong to allow him to keep his first 5 Tour de France titles. When Armstrong refused all their plea bargains, and then said that he would no longer defend himself, the USADA went for the maximum punishment, and then the USADA had the audacity to act like a drug free sport was their motivation for throwing the whole damn library at Armstrong. Their real reason was to punish Armstrong for resisting all their plea bargains.

you are seriously deluded and shameless.

man, there isnt sand deep enough to bury your head in when it comes to athletes you like, I suppose.

[SLD76]

Originally Posted by Mustard

With the plea bargaining system, how do we know that someone hasn't said to Armstrong "admit to doping, or you'll be in jail and bankrupt etc."? The fact is, we don't know, as plea bargaining corrupts the whole process. It is blackmail, where the blackmailers have all the power.

If you don't even fail a drugs test according to the laws of cycling, why are you even treated as guilty in the first place?

why would admitting to oprah on a tv show have any impact on the legal justice system. you do realize that if armstrong had to "confess" it would be to proper authorities in exchange for a lack of chargers and something like that would have been reported to the media long ago, right?

thats just stupid and you are beyond clutching at straws.

pathetic.

[mmk]

Originally Posted by Vrad

While it is certainly possible Federer is doping, of the top players, he is the least likely.

1) He never had a massive jump in his quality of play. Federer's play was acclaimed even as a teen. He actually won a slam later than most expected, and it was clear the major reason was a mental change (Federer would drop games as a teen, because he felt a call went against him). I haven't heard of any illegal drugs which are known to make you more calm and focused (and if they exist, maybe they shouldn't be illegal)......

Well, as those who have kids with ADHD can attest, there are drugs which can make you more calm and focused, e.g., adderall. ADD/ADHD drugs aren't necessarily illegal, but they are controlled substances. I don't know what the ITF rules are on these drugs, but in other sports they are legal if there is a prescription. However, I doubt that Fed is taking any such drug.

[cc0509]

Originally Posted by Mustard

The evidence in that dossier that got Armstrong banned was circumstantial, mostly based on the testimonies of plea bargained cyclists.



And what plea bargains were they offered and what were they threatened with if they had refused? The USADA were willing to let Armstrong keep 5 of his Tour de France titles had he plea bargained at one stage, but Armstrong refused, and got a life ban and stripped of all his results back to 1998.

Like I said, the whole process is corrupt and makes a fair trial, so to speak, impossible.

Oh my God Mustard, you are still denying and trying to come up with reasons to defend Armstrong? Just stop and admit defeat. You are looking like an absolute lunatic with this denial BS. You were wrong. Say it to yourself 20 times so you begin to believe it.

[Magnetite]

Originally Posted by DropShotArtist

History repeats itself. This is exactly how it was in cycling. In the beginning no one believed or wanted to believe it. Specially not the ardent fangirls. But smart guys like Rochus and me, we see through the clouds. Nadal is probably the main culprit. Sod mentioning surprised me a bit though.

That's ridiculous. Everyone with half a brain has known for eons that cycling has rampant doping.

Same with baseball and the NFL.

Tennis I'm not so sure about, because the guys aren't ridiculously huge, but their endurance, and ability to recover is somewhat suspect.

They are taking something, but whether it's illegal or not is a different matter.

[SLD76]

Originally Posted by Clarky21

Totally agree. He is the most obvious case of doping I have ever seen in tennis. Nobody turns their entire career around overnight the way he did with a gluten-free diet. He went from a solid #3 player to a dominant #1, hardly losing any matches since late 2010. It's insulting to our intelligence the bs story he and his camp have tried to sell us for the past 2 years, and it's even more insulting that WADA and the ATP have gone right along with it.

tee hee. I still remember last year's AO trophy ceremony where nadal was congratulating djoker and said something "i want to congratulate your team, they are doing an amazing job"

man, the look, just for a second or two, that djoker shot rafa was pure ice cold like "watch it, buddy" LOL


of course clarky will disagree, but it especially amused me. Like one doper saying to another "damn son, your docs blew mine out the water this year" lol.

[heninfan99]

On Testing:
Gilles Simon: "I think this system is demanding but necessary to ensure that everybody can be tested anytime."

Mahesh Bhupathi: "It is no fun. But to fight cheats I will do it. I am already giving my daily whereabouts to the association."

Mike Bryan: "It's a little strict, but it's the same for everyone. It's gonna really clean up our sport. There will be no questions in anyone's head if anyone's cheating."

Roger Federer: "I feel like this is how you’re going to catch them, right? You’re not going to catch them ringing them up and saying, 'Look, I would like to test you maybe in two days.' The guy’s cheating and they’re smart, right? It’s an hour a day. I know it’s a pain, but I would like it to be a clean sport, and that’s why I’m OK with it."

Andy Murray: "These new rules are so draconian that it makes it almost impossible to live a normal life."

Rafael Nadal: "It's not fair to have persecution like that...They make you feel like a criminal."

All quotes from tennishasasteriodproblem.blogspot.com

[Rocky89]

Originally Posted by Vrad

While it is certainly possible Federer is doping, of the top players, he is the least likely.

1) He never had a massive jump in his quality of play. Federer's play was acclaimed even as a teen. He actually won a slam later than most expected, and it was clear the major reason was a mental change (Federer would drop games as a teen, because he felt a call went against him). I haven't heard of any illegal drugs which are known to make you more calm and focused (and if they exist, maybe they shouldn't be illegal).

2) Doping allows you to push your body further than it is naturally capable. This takes a toll on your muscles, ligaments, and bones. The fact that Federer has been able to go so many years without ever missing a grand slam, or retiring from games, indicates he rarely ever pushes his body beyond its natural physical limits.

3) His style of play is such, he really doesn't need the doping. He isn't close to the strongest player on court, or the player with the most stamina. Of course, just because he doesn't need to be doping, doesn't mean he isn't. What it does mean is that a rational individual would be less likely to suspect him than other player go show superhuman fears of strength and stamina.
4) He has consistently and constantly pushed for stricter rules against doping. Unlike other top players, he has never complained about anti-doping efforts, and has frequently said that they don't go far enough.

Again, I don't think any modern tennis professional is above suspicion of doping. But Federer is possibly one of the least likely players in the top 10 to be doping.

Please, he is just as likely as all the other guys. Everyone benefits from doping, regardless of game style.

[Fiji]

Federer is the least likely to be doping. His progression was not overnight.

The suspicious ones are those who went from zero to hero overnight like Nadal who won a mm title in 2004 and then in 2005 won 11 titles and Djokovic who went from winning one or two mm titles in 2010 to winning almost all the big titles, 10 of them, in 2011.

[DropShotArtist]

Originally Posted by Magnetite

That's ridiculous. Everyone with half a brain has known for eons that cycling has rampant doping.

Same with baseball and the NFL.

Tennis I'm not so sure about, because the guys aren't ridiculously huge, but their endurance, and ability to recover is somewhat suspect.

They are taking something, but whether it's illegal or not is a different matter.

It's not ridiculous. Even just 7 or 8 years ago, on the cycling forums I'd say everyone is doping and there would be droves of people defending the sport as 99% clean and the few caught were exceptions. Only recently are people finally beginning to accept that the sport is very largely tainted. Mention sports like tennis, NFL, NBA, and people's mentality will be where it was a decade ago. But the truth is circulating under the public's noses.

[the hack]

what are the differences in drug testing between tennis and bicycling?

[Relinquis]

Originally Posted by DropShotArtist

It's not ridiculous. Even just 7 or 8 years ago, on the cycling forums I'd say everyone is doping and there would be droves of people defending the sport as 99% clean and the few caught were exceptions. Only recently are people finally beginning to accept that the sport is very largely tainted. Mention sports like tennis, NFL, NBA, and people's mentality will be where it was a decade ago. But the truth is circulating under the public's noses.

people still think the NFL is clean?
mind = boggled

[nadal_GOAT_king]

Some people can be so naïve.

The real question is, what exactly constitutes doping today? Since the boundaries are kept being pushed

[KarmaKorps]

While there is definitely enough info to raise curiosity (re: doping), I suggest more of you do some reading on what the top athletes are doing with their fitness and diet.
Sorry, but hard work goes a long way in adding muscle. Physio and post-workout diet helps with recovery, and the proper sprint/excercise training really does help with endurance. Some body types are simply able to store more energy and/or support more muscle mass.
Transformations in sport are very often mental. You heard it straight from Federer. He pointed to his mental approach as being instrumental in his ability to win matches and start owning the tour.

But back to the physical. Andy Murray, for example, said it took him two years to gain 10 pounds, and had to eat 6,000 calories a day to maintain the weight/muscle. Believe it or not there is a science to it.
I'm not saying there is a 100% chance against the possibility that someone in the top 10 isn't doping, but it's presumptuous, despite Oliver Rochus's comments. I wonder how hard he works on his body/training as compared to the top 5 guys.
Until further evidence, I'll attribute the top 5's success to their talent and huge committment to their physicality - legally.
You guys might want to try a similar workout routine and see how it transforms your success on the tennis court

[nikdom]

Interesting points here in this blog about Nadal

[kragster]

Originally Posted by nikdom

Interesting points here in this blog about Nadal

Finally, a legit source to confirm Nadal's doping - "Ruans Federer Blog 2.0".

I think the most damning piece of evidence from this source "His muscles also looks like someone who is doping." With this kind of rock solid evidence and reasoning, it's a wonder Nadal hasn't been stripped of his titles yet.

[Candide]

Good article. Still the evidence is just circumstantial but the fact that he is against more stringent monitoring of players is a bit incongrous. I have a feeling that, like Armstrong, after he retires perhaps someone on his team, a jealous Spanish teammate or a medico looking for some notoriety or a payday might decide to come forward and make some revelations.

I remember watching Verdasco slog Nadal into the ground that year and think that Federer was a dead certainty for the final especially if it went long. I remember waiting all through the match for a sign of fatigue or a gasp for breath. Nothing. It was like he was coming out for the first match of the tournament. This was the first time that alarm bells went off for me. It may be that he is a genetic outlier and just physically gifted and I hope so because it will be horribly damaging and cause a lot of pain if he ever is shown to be something else.

[dafinch]

Originally Posted by Mustard

The evidence in that dossier that got Armstrong banned was circumstantial, mostly based on the testimonies of plea bargained cyclists.

<<First, are you trying to say that you know the deals that were cut to all of the people who received plea bargains? THAT would be an interesting claim. Are you also claiming that the testimony of a large number of associates is invalid because they received plea bargains? Also, I guess we should be grateful that you used the word "mostly," but,apparently even you aren't trying to claim that ALL of the evidence came from plea bargaining people, so, that begs the question, why should Armstrong's word be taken over multiple people, even a group of plea bargaining people, let ALONE a group of people who did NOT plea bargain?>>

And what plea bargains were they offered and what were they threatened with if they had refused? The USADA were willing to let Armstrong keep 5 of his Tour de France titles had he plea bargained at one stage, but Armstrong refused, and got a life ban and stripped of all his results back to 1998.


<<I don't care if they agreed to detail his car daily for the next 10 years, reciprocity is the corner of almost all relationships, including the judicial system. Whine all you want, that's the way the system works. You should also look up the phrase "silence is acquiescence" not only was Armstrong silent when he could've spoken up, he went beyond silence and confessed, which you STILL haven't explained-for that matter, what does confessing on Oprah have to do with plea bargaining with officials?? I certainly don't condone letting him keep some of his titles, maybe they had conclusive evidence on the other ones but not so much on the 5, but your contention that somebody who is innocent can be "forced" to take a plea is ludicrous. You also seem to have difficulty with the concept of why it it sometimes advantageous to take a plea bargain, and it's understood if you make the other side go to the mat, AND you're found guilty, of COURSE you're gonna get a much stiffer sentence. What's so hard to understand about THAT?!?!>>


And what plea bargains were they offered and what were they threatened with if they had refused? The USADA were willing to let Armstrong keep 5 of his Tour de France titles had he plea bargained at one stage, but Armstrong refused, and got a life ban and stripped of all his results back to 1998.

Like I said, the whole process is corrupt and makes a fair trial, so to speak, impossible.



Sorry, but the USADA were willing to let Armstrong to keep 5 Tours, if only he had plea bargained. Had Armstrong accepted, the USADA would have either buried evidence of Armstrong's long-term doping or stopped going crazy with their plea bargains on other cyclists to get Armstrong banned for life. As I said, a corrupt process.

Whatever deal they made with him is easily trumped by the fact that he was guilty, MASSIVELY so, and realized that the evidence to prove same was overwhelming. You can bury your head in the sand, or the hole of your choice, but no amount of spinning can change that fact.

[DeShaun]

Originally Posted by mmk

Well, as those who have kids with ADHD can attest, there are drugs which can make you more calm and focused, e.g., adderall. ADD/ADHD drugs aren't necessarily illegal, but they are controlled substances. I don't know what the ITF rules are on these drugs, but in other sports they are legal if there is a prescription. However, I doubt that Fed is taking any such drug.

I played tennis on Adderal one time- and one time only...I never will do that again. I feared my heart was going to explode and the added mental calmness actually seemed to be hindering me after a certain point when I sensed that, as the match was becoming tight yet my intensity level remained...I guess "flat" would be the best word, I knew then that I should rather be psyching myself up than riding "this strong sense of being unperturbed by everything." It was almost like I could not summon those feelings of being vested in the outcome or care enough to make changes/improvements in my performance precisely because I was on the Adderal.

[tennis_badger]

fed is the least likely to dope/take any drugs.
nadal is suspicious, murray and joker i think is clean as well like fed.

unlike bike racing and baseball, tennis is not an endurance sport or one that requires hitting the ball really hard, so i dont think dope is that effective (very min knowledge about dope, so maybe i'm wrong)

one thing that lance did was to re-inject his fresh blood to keep him fresh, this is more possible scenario in tennis, however considering the amount of tournaments they played and in different countries i dont see this happening (storing and moving blood package undetected year after year? yeah i dont think so) and even if it happen it'll be on occassion where the person is really tired, wont be on every match, maybe before a GS final or something.