Before 3rd set 10-point tie break, guy took a 7 minute water break

directionals · 01-16-2013, 09:50 PM

ok, I played a USTA match. Our scores were close and the 2nd set went to a tie break which I won. Before we started our 3rd set 10-point tiebreak, he took a water break for like 6-7 minutes. The water fountain was in the other end of the club, but still it shouldn't have taken him this long. During his water break, I kept walking in the court to keep my legs warm. Well, long story short, I had small cramps in the tiebreak and lost the match.

I guess you know what my question is by now - is a player allowed a long water break after a set?

SystemicAnomaly · 01-16-2013, 10:09 PM

No, what your opponent did was not reasonable or fair -- he was, in effect, cheating. "Play should shall be continuous" with no more than 2 minutes between sets, I believe. Even a medical timeout, for an actual medical treatment, should be no more than 3 minutes. This is allowed only once during the match.

http://www.usta.com/Improve-Your-Game/Rules/Rules-and-Line-Calls/Medical_Timeouts

directionals · 01-16-2013, 10:32 PM

Thanks for the link, SystemicAnomaly. I haven't played many USTA matches. I really hate these tricks. Does anyone know if this is something I can report to USTA? Both my team and his team were watching the whole thing unfold from the next court since our match was the last to finish. Our team lost 2-3.

SystemicAnomaly · 01-16-2013, 11:09 PM

Not sure what can be done at this point. I've not played USTA league matches for quite some time. Hopefully some current USTA players (or woodrow1029) will chime in with some useful advice.

.

SystemicAnomaly · 01-17-2013, 03:25 AM

^ It could have very well made a difference. The OP had some momentum after winning the 2nd set tie-break and the extended delay by the opponent diffused that by cheating. The 6-7 min delay could very well have contributed to some cramping as the OP mentioned.

At my age, the delay could have most certainly made a very significant difference. Because of arthritis in the knees, shoulder issues and tendinitis of the hip (flexor), it takes me quite a while to warm up my body. Once I've got it warmed up, I can keep going for hours. However, any extended breaks will result in joints stiffening up and muscle soreness. If the break is too long, I might as well just pack it up and go home. It is not unusual for me to develop a significant limp after 10 minutes or so after ceasing activity.

Cindysphinx · 01-17-2013, 03:43 AM

No you cannot complain now. It's too late, and it sounds like you didn't even object.

Next time:

There's no such thing as a "water break."

He could have taken an injury time-out (5 minutes for unofficiated matches under our local rules).

He could have taken a reasonable break to deal with a clothing or equipment issue (but not a racket issue).

He could have taken a 5-minute bathroom break (and our local rules advise that you accompany him to make sure it is in fact a bathroom break and not a coaching or stalling break). Other local rules for timed matches prohibit bathroom breaks toward the end of the match.

If the opponent just up and left the court against your objection for some other reason, the thing to do would be to time him (using a cell phone, IMHO) and perhaps have a teammate do the same.

If it was instead a break for an authorized reason, then still time him. If you don't actually time him, then you wouldn't be able to win any grievance if you defaulted him.

If it is an excessively long break or an unauthorized one, then I would say at the time, "Hey, you're not allowed to take a break like this. If you go, I'm going to consider it your retirement."

Pbarrow · 01-17-2013, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by floridatennisdude

Get mentally and physically tougher. You're complaining about a 5-6 minute delay.

I would agree with this for rec level. In the "elder" leagues we have guys that have to take bathroom breaks in between sets all the time!

chatt_town · 01-17-2013, 06:18 AM

I think you are pretty much screwed with this match. I'd also like to thank the guy for the link. I actually did this myself a few years back. I honestly didn't know you couldn't take a break. I thought it was like a new set and you were allowed to take a break. I did exactly what you are describing. So while it's no excuse the guy may have actually thought he was within his rights to do this. I guess I need to go back and reverse my score line for 09. I think this is about when this happened. I ended up winning my 3rd set breaker as well. lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by directionals

Thanks for the link, SystemicAnomaly. I haven't played many USTA matches. I really hate these tricks. Does anyone know if this is something I can report to USTA? Both my team and his team were watching the whole thing unfold from the next court since our match was the last to finish. Our team lost 2-3.

chatt_town · 01-17-2013, 06:29 AM

*****....yea...in most leagues I've seen and played in...I'd like to see that pulled off. I mean really what you say is very accurate and sounds reasonable but unless it's a sanctioned tourney or officials are standing there, you are going to catch hell getting anything done. I agree with someone else. You have to get mentally tougher. People do things all the time just to get under your skin...bend the rules or even break them....knowing there is little if anything you are really going to be able to do. I had a guy do something similiar in an indoor tourney during Christmas. He decided he needed a bathroom break right after the second set started(I won the first and he was leading the second 0-1). I'd just ran him off the court. The wrong thing at that point to do was get riled up over a 6 or 7 minute break. What I did was just took the time to go to the restroom myself. I could have gotten worked up about it but all would have happen is I lose concentration. I came right back out and continued to play and win. So this person needs to get mentally tougher. If he lets this bother him, he will also let bother him other things....like a guy this past Sunday during warmup trying to knock the raquet out of my hand everytime I'd feed him the ball instead of hitting a mid range groundstroke back to me. He was spraying balls to the point where my wife was ducking balls on the other side. He did stop once he saw I wasn't going to pull my hamstring chasing down balls in the alley. Had he not...I would have just gotten my wife and we would have warmed up on the other side and let him hit balls at his partner. So there is an answer for everything...you just have know how to handle the different situations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

No you cannot complain now. It's too late, and it sounds like you didn't even object.

Next time:

There's no such thing as a "water break."

He could have taken an injury time-out (5 minutes for unofficiated matches under our local rules).

He could have taken a reasonable break to deal with a clothing or equipment issue (but not a racket issue).

He could have taken a 5-minute bathroom break (and our local rules advise that you accompany him to make sure it is in fact a bathroom break and not a coaching or stalling break). Other local rules for timed matches prohibit bathroom breaks toward the end of the match.

If the opponent just up and left the court against your objection for some other reason, the thing to do would be to time him (using a cell phone, IMHO) and perhaps have a teammate do the same.

If it was instead a break for an authorized reason, then still time him. If you don't actually time him, then you wouldn't be able to win any grievance if you defaulted him.

If it is an excessively long break or an unauthorized one, then I would say at the time, "Hey, you're not allowed to take a break like this. If you go, I'm going to consider it your retirement."

IA-SteveB · 01-17-2013, 06:45 AM

I wouldn't have cared one way or the other. If a few minute delay ends my chance at a win, there is something more serious going on with me. I have a hard time defining this as cheating unless you specifically told him that you will cramp up after five minutes of idle time.

Inconsiderate? Maybe. Cheating? Nope. Yeah, I get that there are rulebooks, but tennis is such an uptight sport to begin with. As Steve Winwood once sang, "Roll with it baby."

chatt_town · 01-17-2013, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IA-SteveB

I wouldn't have cared one way or the other. If a few minute delay ends my chance at a win, there is something more serious going on with me. I have a hard time defining this as cheating unless you specifically told him that you will cramp up after five minutes of idle time.

Inconsiderate? Maybe. Cheating? Nope. Yeah, I get that there are rulebooks, but tennis is such an uptight sport to begin with.

Gonzalito17 · 01-17-2013, 07:05 AM

After his obvious stall tactic you should have figured out a way to make him wait before starting the TB, to one-up him. He set the tone and mood of the TB by causing HIS delay. He was in control.

woodrow1029 · 01-17-2013, 07:14 AM

Was this league match? Or was it a tournament match? Age group?

Zolar · 01-17-2013, 07:25 AM

Interesting topic and good to know info. What if he knew of your condition and really had to go to the bathroom. What should he do?
I'd say get over it and figure out how to keep moving so it doesn't happen again.

Practice serves or get a teammate to hit with you.

spot · 01-17-2013, 07:36 AM

Are you sure he didn't use the restroom while he was taking the break? I just can't imagine getting worked up because someone took a bathroom break and I really can't see how this is any different.

floridatennisdude · 01-17-2013, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SystemicAnomaly

^ It could have very well made a difference. The OP had some momentum after winning the 2nd set tie-break and the extended delay by the opponent diffused that by cheating. The 6-7 min delay could very well have contributed to some cramping as the OP mentioned.

At my age, the delay could have most certainly made a very significant difference. Because of arthritis in the knees, shoulder issues and tendinitis of the hip (flexor), it takes me quite a while to warm up my body. Once I've got it warmed up, I can keep going for hours. However, any extended breaks will result in joints stiffening up and muscle soreness. If the break is too long, I might as well just pack it up and go home. It is not unusual for me to develop a significant limp after 10 minutes or so after ceasing activity.

Apparently you are quite suspect to a bathroom break or injury TO by your opponent. Best of luck.

Govnor · 01-17-2013, 10:13 AM

You can't get worked up about this sort of this thing. You just can't. Keep warm, stretch, hit some balls....etc etc

dizzlmcwizzl · 01-17-2013, 10:54 AM

The fact of the matter is there are some rules that, while clear, are really hard to enforce without officials present.

In this case the guy told you he was taking a water break ... are you really going to tell him you are putting him on the clock for a water break after 2 long sets? It seems like you were having a nice match and putting your opponent on the clock for a water break would essentially end that.

In my mind you have two choices ... toughen up mentally and not let your opponents water break be an excuse for a loss or resort to similar unenforceable illegal tactics to send him a message.

arche3 · 01-17-2013, 11:03 AM

Lol at follow the guy to the bathroom. Is that really a rule? Cindy?
Let the guy pee in peace if needed.

Mongolmike · 01-17-2013, 11:38 AM

Just to be clear for my future reference, after the 2nd set ends and you are now going to start a match tiebreak, you ARE allowed a 3 minute (approximate) rest time, correct?

Then once the match tiebreak starts, you are not supposed to take a rest on side changeovers, not even to stop for a quick drink by your gear, correct? (But if both players are in agreement to grab a quick drink and towel-off... that is ok in the spirit of the game, correct?)

Also, a match tiebreak is like a new set in that for doubles either player can serve first and again in doubles you can now switch sides also, correct?

01-16-2013, 09:50 PM	#1
directionals New User Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 70	Before 3rd set 10-point tie break, guy took a 7 minute water break ok, I played a USTA match. Our scores were close and the 2nd set went to a tie break which I won. Before we started our 3rd set 10-point tiebreak, he took a water break for like 6-7 minutes. The water fountain was in the other end of the club, but still it shouldn't have taken him this long. During his water break, I kept walking in the court to keep my legs warm. Well, long story short, I had small cramps in the tiebreak and lost the match. I guess you know what my question is by now - is a player allowed a long water break after a set?

01-16-2013, 10:09 PM	#2
SystemicAnomaly Legend Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Stuck in the Matrix somewhere in Santa Clara CA Posts: 7,747	No, what your opponent did was not reasonable or fair -- he was, in effect, cheating. "Play should shall be continuous" with no more than 2 minutes between sets, I believe. Even a medical timeout, for an actual medical treatment, should be no more than 3 minutes. This is allowed only once during the match. http://www.usta.com/Improve-Your-Game/Rules/Rules-and-Line-Calls/Medical_Timeouts __________________ . Every tool is a weapon -- if you hold it right. (~Ani DiFranco)

01-16-2013, 11:09 PM	#4
SystemicAnomaly Legend Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Stuck in the Matrix somewhere in Santa Clara CA Posts: 7,747	Not sure what can be done at this point. I've not played USTA league matches for quite some time. Hopefully some current USTA players (or woodrow1029) will chime in with some useful advice. . __________________ . Every tool is a weapon -- if you hold it right. (~Ani DiFranco)

01-17-2013, 03:43 AM	#6
Cindysphinx G.O.A.T. Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 14,090	No you cannot complain now. It's too late, and it sounds like you didn't even object. Next time: There's no such thing as a "water break." He could have taken an injury time-out (5 minutes for unofficiated matches under our local rules). He could have taken a reasonable break to deal with a clothing or equipment issue (but not a racket issue). He could have taken a 5-minute bathroom break (and our local rules advise that you accompany him to make sure it is in fact a bathroom break and not a coaching or stalling break). Other local rules for timed matches prohibit bathroom breaks toward the end of the match. If the opponent just up and left the court against your objection for some other reason, the thing to do would be to time him (using a cell phone, IMHO) and perhaps have a teammate do the same. If it was instead a break for an authorized reason, then still time him. If you don't actually time him, then you wouldn't be able to win any grievance if you defaulted him. If it is an excessively long break or an unauthorized one, then I would say at the time, "Hey, you're not allowed to take a break like this. If you go, I'm going to consider it your retirement." __________________ -- Random Error Generator, Version 4.0 -- Master Moonballer

01-17-2013, 06:45 AM	#10
IA-SteveB Rookie Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 394	I wouldn't have cared one way or the other. If a few minute delay ends my chance at a win, there is something more serious going on with me. I have a hard time defining this as cheating unless you specifically told him that you will cramp up after five minutes of idle time. Inconsiderate? Maybe. Cheating? Nope. Yeah, I get that there are rulebooks, but tennis is such an uptight sport to begin with. As Steve Winwood once sang, "Roll with it baby." __________________ NTRP 3.5 \| "I like everything about the sport except the uptight people." - Me Last edited by IA-SteveB : 01-17-2013 at 07:02 AM.