Who is the female Tennis GOAT?

[TMF]

Originally Posted by TERRASTAR18

because you say so?

Most fans don't include Serena except her fan base, and both Graf and Martina will always take the top 2 position.

[TERRASTAR18]

Originally Posted by TMF

I agree with the first 2 arguments above, but the 3rd argument is subjective. You can't measure peak play, let alone compare who was playing at the highest level, and who would beat who when playing their best. However I agree that goat status isn't about peak play, but career achievements.



Here is what Steve Flink said about Serena in his book:

"I do think that Serena's performance at the Olympics was the highest technical level we've ever seen from her," he said. "But some of the past greats were champions of a higher order than anyone she's playing right now. I think Steffi Graf, especially, would have done very well against her, with the athleticism, the speed, and a sliced backhand I think would give Serena problems.

so one random non-tennis player says it so it makes it true. by past greats
does he mean evert or does he mean vicario because there is a big difference.

[Phoenix1983]

Originally Posted by TMF

Most fans don't include Serena except her fan base, and both Graf and Martina will always take the top 2 position.

There must be a lot of young posters on this board, it's the only explanation for Serena coming in at 2nd in this poll.

[TMF]

Originally Posted by Phoenix1983

WWII interfered with the course of history, maybe Don Budge would have won every tournament that was played during those six years and be known today as male GOAT.

Please stop trying to put the Seles stabbing in a different category to other events. Its effect on tennis history is a "would have" hypothetical just like all the rest.

So true. Not only tennis, but athletes from other sports took a big hit during WW2. And Post war didn't help either because of the massive European reconstruction.

[Vanhool]

If you go by records, then there's little to discuss. GOAT by achievement goes to Graf, with some accolades to others for specific areas of excellence. GOAT by peak performance... Chrissy says it's Serena, and I put a lot of weight in her opinion. But it's also expected that people of the present would outplay those of the past. I hope Serena stays healthy and adds more to her achievements, and then we'll see where she stands. GOAT potential? Most definitely! GOAT by achievement? No way! Peak performance goat? Maybe. I think so, but I don't feel strong in my conviction.

[TMF]

Originally Posted by TERRASTAR18

so one random non-tennis player says it so it makes it true. by past greats
does he mean evert or does he mean vicario because there is a big difference.

Steve Flink is not a random tennis fan unlike you, but he's a well respected historian who knows great deal about tennis. You don't have to agree with him, but the point still remain...peak level of play is subjective and can't be measure.

[TMF]

Originally Posted by Phoenix1983

There must be a lot of young posters on this board, it's the only explanation for Serena coming in at 2nd in this poll.

Phoenix, Serena fans vote for her, but regular fans vote for Graf. The reason Serena has more votes than Martina because vast majority believe Graf is the goat. Let say the OP excluded Graf from the poll, I believe many(if not all) the people who voted for Graf would choose Martina. The result would end with Martina having a lot more votes than Serena.

[kiki]

Originally Posted by TMF

Phoenix, Serena fans vote for her, but regular fans vote for Graf. The reason Serena has more votes than Martina because vast majority believe Graf is the goat. Let say the OP excluded Graf from the poll, I believe many(if not all) the people who voted for Graf would choose Martina. The result would end with Martina having a lot more votes than Serena.

I agree.Plus Serena vs Hingis is extremely close: 7-6.

[TERRASTAR18]

Originally Posted by TMF

Steve Flink is not a random tennis fan unlike you, but he's a well respected historian who knows great deal about tennis. You don't have to agree with him, but the point still remain...peak level of play is subjective and can't be measure.

it's subjective but you accept the one who agrees with you....
well respected by another non-players.....

[TMF]

Originally Posted by kiki

I agree.Plus Serena vs Hingis is extremely close: 7-6.

I like Hingis more than Serena but sorry I cannot agree with you. Serena > Hingis by some distance, not extremely close.

I know you love Hingis just as much if not more than Kodes, so you will say anything to make them look good.

[TERRASTAR18]

Originally Posted by kiki

I agree.Plus Serena vs Hingis is extremely close: 7-6.

because hingis quit because she said herself that they were too good for her, so the 7-6 is a mute point.

[TMF]

Originally Posted by TERRASTAR18

it's subjective but you accept the one who agrees with you....
well respected by another non-players.....

I didn't say you're are wrong about Serena is the best at her peak.

[kiki]

Originally Posted by TMF

I like Hingis more than Serena but sorry I cannot agree with you. Serena > Hingis by some distance, not extremely close.

I know you love Hingis just as much if not more than Kodes, so you will say anything to make them look good.

How could I not love a guy that doubles Fed´s titles at Paris?

[kiki]

Originally Posted by TERRASTAR18

because hingis quit because she said herself that they were too good for her, so the 7-6 is a mute point.

She´d have found a way to switch things.No question.

[TERRASTAR18]

Originally Posted by TMF

I didn't say you're are wrong about Serena is the best at her peak.

and nobody doubts based on achievements in vacum, others are ahead of serena, but thye game isn't in a vacum.

[ctjpm]

'Serena is tougher than Monica though' = subjective. Serena was never in Monica's position. Monica's mental toughness was legendary and it floored her.

Singles - Graf.
Combined/doubles - Navratilova.
There's no such thing as the greatest of course but it beats writing an essay. Special mention to the two Mo's who couldn't continue to rack up titles.

[The-Champ]

nuff said!

http://youtu.be/i_pBskiwocQ?t=5s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4PtT9Ly-yA


http://youtu.be/95z07BWzyEg?t=4m46s


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DEYyksMkAU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7ZihSSfS-o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPD8hvUZWJg

[SystemicAnomaly]

^^^

Originally Posted by Phoenix1983

There must be a lot of young posters on this board, it's the only explanation for Serena coming in at 2nd in this poll.

Yes, I've got to agree with this. I think that we all agree that Serena is an amazing talent and possibly has the best level of play overall, but she has not YET racked up the achievements to put her 2nd or even 3rd in the poll.

(PS: NadalAgassi, why don't you remind us one more time that Serena is 31? As if this makes your arguments more compelling or more credible. Yes, it is admirable that she is doing very well at 31 but it still does not magically put her ahead of players with considerably more achievements).

[TERRASTAR18]

Originally Posted by TMF

Most fans don't include Serena except her fan base, and both Graf and Martina will always take the top 2 position.

the same bigots who call her a man and use steroids? yeah bias much?!

[TERRASTAR18]

Originally Posted by kiki

She´d have found a way to switch things.No question.

she did switch: from playing to not playing and it stopped the beatdowns.