Single handed backhand for juniors...

[FrisbeeFool]

Originally Posted by BevelDevil

True about fundamentals, BUT the modern pro stroke is different from the "textbook"/"old farts" in a few key ways.

1. Most important is grip. Too many books/videos/pics encourage the use of an Eastern "pistol" grip, where the player is holding the racket like a steak knife.

Pros, on the other hand, tend to hold the handle more like the handlebars on a mountain bike, with their fingers more bunched together and with their heelpad further behind the handle. The gives the grip a more "extreme" feel.

Do an internet comparison of textbook "eastern grips" and what the pros actually do. There's usually a huge difference.

Also look at the link I posted above, which shows the grip I'm talking about.

I think most the problems with high balls that rec players have come from a bad grip.


2. Shoulder turn. Textbook says shoulders should always be perpendicular to the net at contact (and probably at follow through). But the players with some of best backhands (especially on high balls) tend to open up their shoulders significantly. This includes Wawrinka, Gasquet, Haas, Almagro, Henin, and Mauresmo, and more.

The extra shoulder turn really helps on high balls. I think this is because it flattens the swing trajectory.


Lastly, Fed does not have a textbook 1hbh. He may have learned textbook, but (like his forehand) it evolved into something completely different:

Fed doesn't straighten his arm until very late in his swing. This is why he can generate so much rackethead speed from a relatively small motion. This is what gives his 1hbh a "wristy" and "whippy" motion that commentators noticed (and were somewhat suspicious of) when he first came on the scene.

So Fed's stroke is neither like the textbook nor like other 1-handers.on tour.

100 percent wrong!!! Wawrinka - Eastern Almagro - Eastern Dimitrov - Eastern Federer -Eastern Youzhny Eastern. Henin and Guga use a more extreme grip. Most coaches teach the one-handed backhand topspin drive with some variant of the eastern backhand grip. No internet denizens comments will change that.

In my opinion, Wawrinka has the best one handed backhand in the game. This grip is Eastern, nowhere near the extreme variants you see some players using, and he's doing alright. If you were familiar with junior tennis, you would realize that correcting extreme grips is a big problem a lot of coaches deal with.

[Vertiz]

1hbh was always more natural for me, and although through fooling around I can now hit a two hander, my one hander is much more natural and frankly, a lot better. Although many people who are stuck with one handers have bad one handers, for some people it is natural and through time/experience/a lot of hardwork it will no longer be a weakness. Frankly I do lose most points off my backhand wing b/c players at the D1 level are able to exploit it well, however it is certainly not a weakness. My forehand is simply better, and I often times hit winners or create opportunities with my backhand. There is no real reason to advocate teaching one or two imo, simply what the kid is more comfortable with. Perhaps the two hander is more suitable for today's baseline game, however it is not so much of an advantage that it's necessary teaching a two over a one. Whilst 90% of the top 100 use two handers, the number 10 and 2 player in the world both use a one hander. The number 2 being the greatest player of all time in my opinion. I always had a one hander, and once I started training seriously at a young age with top coaches in the area, they decided against teaching me a two hander because my one hander was very good. Now if it wasn't so good, and I was clearly struggling with it, a two hander might have been a better idea.

[luvforty]

Originally Posted by FrisbeeFool

Dimitrov has all the fundamentals. Very similar backhand to Becker. They use the same grip, and have similar prep, contact, and follow-through. What is the "intrinsic flaw in the old style" that you are pointing about obliquely but not describing in a concrete manor???

NOT similar follow-through at all..

Dimitrov's body language tells you he is not trying to hit thru the ball... he is yanking to the right, resulting in that finish where the racket tip almost hit his upper arm.

what is the difference between the 3 balls in a row FH and the WW FH? just apply the answer to the bh side.

[FrisbeeFool]

Originally Posted by Vertiz

1hbh was always more natural for me, and although through fooling around I can now hit a two hander, my one hander is much more natural and frankly, a lot better. Although many people who are stuck with one handers have bad one handers, for some people it is natural and through time/experience/a lot of hardwork it will no longer be a weakness. Frankly I do lose most points off my backhand wing b/c players at the D1 level are able to exploit it well, however it is certainly not a weakness. My forehand is simply better, and I often times hit winners or create opportunities with my backhand. There is no real reason to advocate teaching one or two imo, simply what the kid is more comfortable with. Perhaps the two hander is more suitable for today's baseline game, however it is not so much of an advantage that it's necessary teaching a two over a one. Whilst 90% of the top 100 use two handers, the number 10 and 2 player in the world both use a one hander. The number 2 being the greatest player of all time in my opinion. I always had a one hander, and once I started training seriously at a young age with top coaches in the area, they decided against teaching me a two hander because my one hander was very good. Now if it wasn't so good, and I was clearly struggling with it, a two hander might have been a better idea.

Best post in the thread. Finally some sanity.

[FrisbeeFool]

Originally Posted by luvforty

NOT similar follow-through at all..

Dimitrov's body language tells you he is not trying to hit thru the ball... he is yanking to the right, resulting in that finish where the racket tip almost hit his upper arm.

what is the difference between the 3 balls in a row FH and the WW FH? just apply the answer to the bh side.

Look at how long his follow through is and how far in front he follows through before the racket comes around. Notice how he extends his opposite arm backwards, in order to inhibit rotation. On forehands players fold the opposite arm in to aid rotation much like a figure skater. You are confusing one-handed forehands and backhands and clearly do not know how to hit a one-handed backhand.

[luvforty]

about the grip - BevelDevil had a point about the guru's showing the wrong grip etc....

but... the terminology of eastern/sw/hybrid whatever is not relevant.... the key question is - what is the player trying to do with the ball...

the grip has to satisfy 2 requirements -

1) able to close the racket face for the biggest range of ball height... Henin short girl, uses extreme E or SW whatever.... taller guys may use E...

2) able to provide support from the BOTTOM of the grip so the racket follows the forearm supination.

the grip is important, but the key is to recognize the difference in the body language between the newer generation players vs. the older.

[luvforty]

Originally Posted by FrisbeeFool

Look at how long his follow through is and how far in front he follows through before the racket comes around. Notice how he extends his opposite arm, in order to break his torso rotation. On forehands players fold the opposite arm in to aid rotation much like a figure skater. You are confusing one-handed forehands and backhands and clearly do not know how to hit a one-handed backhand.

you are looking at the wrong thing... do you see supination? do you know what it is?

don't reach conclusion too early about who doesn't know how to hit 1hbh..

you don't know what you don't know.

[luvforty]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uVCOQY50OA

pause the video at 0:13

and show me any of the guys in Mac, Lendl, Edberg, Becker, Sampras has that kind of finish.

I am just pointing out that the gurus and the old farts are teaching the obsolete way.... and that's why the recs are struggling with this shot...

they'd have much better luck if they are taught to hit like dimitrov.

[LeeD]

Supinated finish, like Fed.
ClintThompson used it also, as did MOP.

[luvforty]

Originally Posted by LeeD

Supinated finish, like Fed.
ClintThompson used it also, as did MOP.

right - and the list goes on among the pros.

people have an open mind.... go try this.... you will never get to Dimitrov's finish if you try to make 'clean contact'..... but if you address the ball with the leading edge and yank to the right, you will get there.

and the result will NOT be a spinny sitter, it will be the most nasty bh you ever hit....

[LeeD]

but but...
I was raised watching Vilas' backhand, open finish...

[luvforty]

Originally Posted by LeeD

but but...
I was raised watching Vilas' backhand, open finish...

no supination though..... which makes sense with 65in racket.

[sureshs]

I paused the video and watched. Dimitrov makes beautiful square clean contact with the ball on the BH.

[luvforty]

Originally Posted by sureshs

I paused the video and watched. Dimitrov makes beautiful square clean contact with the ball on the BH.

yup.... they all make clean contacts.... the question is how you get there..

and I am saying flipping the face from open to close like this is NOT how you want to teach the juniors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i3M9tY-oKE

if she had a wooden racket, maybe.... but not with a graphite 100 in.

[Relinquis]

Originally Posted by LeeD

I dunno...
I suspect a good slice hit at 5.5 level is totally effective.
Ever try to volley a hard sliced ball that is low and stretches you out? It's not that simple. I remember lots of A/Open guys used only slices.
But that is a lost art nowadaze.

Chardy used it, the backhand slice, as a weapon against Seppi yesterday. It was one of his main strategies. Worth checking out for anyone who wants a demonstration of how it's used in a rally.

Originally Posted by luvforty

i don't think support is needed.... you can hit open stance 2hbh by default... and you only hit 1hbh open stance in emergency...

open stance = less prep time.

I love how unequivocal your responses are. Perfect for arguing on the internet, but not so for an enlightening discussion.

Check out the video you posted of the pros at the US Open:
- Stanislas hits at least one open stance backhand with no issues
- Gasquet is able to take several small positioning steps on so many of those backhands that it is almost a tutorial on how much time you have to set up properly.
- Thirdly, there is the argument that the reach advantage of the single-hander and the ability to hit closed stance (cross-court and down the line) means that the single-hander is superior when hitting on-the-run, exactly the emergency situation where one doesn't have time to set up.
- Returns of serve are done open stance generally. There is no issue doing this with a one hander.

[luvforty]

ok.... 1hbh is basically a left handed ww fh, if your face grows on the back of your head and your nipples and belly button grows on your back lol

so, your power comes from the back muscles.... trying to do that with feet line being open is just awkward... i saw gasquet hit a bunch, but that is when he is on the run.

2hbh, is a left handed fh, without having to move your face/nipples around lol... so you can have open feet and just yank it with your left arm.

[Ash_Smith]

Who, loads of new replies to my old thread - love it! Sadly haven't had time to read them all as I'm at Les Petit AS in Tarbes watching the world's best u14's rip 1 handed backhands!

Will read through when I can!

[LeeD]

An ATP slice backhand works just fine because he can back it up with a toppspin passing shot anytime, and his feet are quick enough to allow him to choose inside out forehand OR backhand topspin.
No so for the rest of us.

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by luvforty

ok.... 1hbh is basically a left handed ww fh, if your face grows on the back of your head and your nipples and belly button grows on your back lol

so, your power comes from the back muscles....

You mean the front shoulder

[luvforty]

Originally Posted by Cheetah

You mean the front shoulder

shoulder is a joint... it provides range of motion, but not power.

power comes from stretched muscles.... in this case the back muscles.