Single handed backhand for juniors...

[luvforty]

@cheetah - pulling the butt, sure, no argument there.

both new guy like dimitrov and old guy like sampras pull the butt.... question is how do you get to a finish like dimitrov's

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by luvforty

@cheetah - pulling the butt, sure, no argument there.

both new guy like dimitrov and old guy like sampras pull the butt.... question is how do you get to a finish like dimitrov's

idk... looking at that now.... my arm / hand can't do that at the end... lemme see if i can figure it out.

[luvforty]

Originally Posted by Cheetah

idk... looking at that now.... my arm / hand can't do that at the end... lemme see if i can figure it out.

here is a hint

remember we had this discussion about the federer chop slice and he 'throws out the wrist'?

now think the top spin drive being a mirror image of the chop slice.

[luvforty]

yeah, an upside-down chop slice.... that's the best analogy!

[Cheetah]

yea but i can't my racquet head to be touching my back while my arm is straight. that's weird. looks cool but idk

[luvforty]

touching the back would require some major flexibility.... it doesn't matter as the ball is long gone.

what matters is that finish tells us what happened in the swing... while he was pulling the butt, he also threw the leading edge upwards and across ACTIVELY.

you can't get to that finish with the arm being entirely passive.

try this on the battle field.... you will hit the most nasty dipping pass, it will be a nice surprise

[marosmith]

Originally Posted by drakulie

what I find so confusing about this, is that the one-hander, from a mechanical stand point is much simpler than a two hander.

I suspect that the reason for teaching a two-hander is because of the "instant gratification", and people for the most part are lazy. The perception that picking up something and swinging it with two hands on your non dominant side with two hands VS one is eaiser.

Completely agree, it's easier and people want instant results.

[boramiNYC]

Originally Posted by luvforty

oh it can go down alright.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uVCOQY50OA

pause at 0:12

kohschreiber's and Almagro's don't go down like this..... but wawrinka's is similar to dimitrov's

That shows the tilted plane swing path for the low ball not dropping the racquet head relative to the hand as in fh.

[boramiNYC]

Originally Posted by luvforty

@cheetah - pulling the butt, sure, no argument there.

both new guy like dimitrov and old guy like sampras pull the butt.... question is how do you get to a finish like dimitrov's

dimitrov has a very good 1hbh but his finish look doesn't look quite normal. Unusual flexibility involved somewhere and/or a slight technical problem. even gasquet doesn't go that far. in any case, I don't think a rec should model after his finishing form.

[luvforty]

'doesn't look normal' is right, unless you know what he is actually doing lol...

it's nothing too extraordinary, it's supination.

Fed does this, Stan does this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjBXVQyiwg

every bh he hits, his racket tip points to the back fence.

Dimi just happened to do that one quite violently.

[BevelDevil]

Originally Posted by boramiNYC

I know you have been advocating this for a while but I don't agree. most top 1hbh in fact use pistol grip and it doesn't mean the heelpad will be on top bevil. and I don't think it's that important point. the heelpad can be changed slightly depending on situations. but for anyone who wants to involve wrist instead of locking should use pistol grip.

I don't want to spend time defining exactly what a "pistol" since it is often a matter of degree. It's my bad for bringing up the "pistol"; there's no need to reference the index finger when heelpad positioning is a more useful description of grip.

My point is that many people are taught to grip the handle with the heel pad too high. However, doing this makes it harder to hit high balls. This is why all pros with Eastern grips have their heel pad much further back from the top.

That was my main point.

My other point is that the "extremeness" of the grip can by altered by changing heelpad positioning. I can tell you know this, but the guy I was replying to didn't.


I agree that the higher the heelpad is, the easier it is to hit through the ball using supination, so it's a matter of choice/style.

However, I think using a lot of supination on medium-high+ balls is harder to learn (but possible), and therefore we shouldn't advocate it for beginners.

[luvforty]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1OJcRmD_1o

how does Fran get to the finish? drawing sword or tossing frisbee won't get you there lol

[luvforty]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6p5ZdGR4hU

courtesy of a fellow TTer.

watch the supination... both guys.

[BevelDevil]

Dimitrov isn't a good model because, like Fed, he straightens his arm late. This is enough of a reason when it comes to beginners/intermediates.

In addition, he uses a lot of upward thrust with his leg, which is tough to time right.


A Dimitrov/Federer stroke is something that should be grown into over the course of years. It's not something that someone should try to learn from scratch.

[luvforty]

that sounds like a matter of preference

[Relinquis]

you guys are discussing the follow through. yeah, they leave the arm lose and follow through fully.

Or are you suggesting that there is supination at contact?!

[luvforty]

Originally Posted by Relinquis

you guys are discussing the follow through. yeah, they leave the arm lose and follow through fully.

Or are you suggesting that there is supination at contact?!

you can't have a passive forearm at contact and expect it to happen at the follow thru.

like the ww FH.... the arm is not passive.... it's "reactive".... it reacts to the increasing centrifugal force from the core rotation, then actively pronate.

bh is basically the same.

bottom line is, it's not drawing a sword or tossing a frisbee where the finish point is way high out there at 1 oclock....... it's a yank to the right while addressing the ball with the leading edge.

[pkshooter]

When I was little, actually I'm still technically a kid, I found a one-hander infinitely easier. Whereas ill admit I've never had real faith in my back hand till now, it seems to me the ohbh is less involved. That is after you've got the take back and turn down. Then you just let the racket's weight pull you through the stroke. Hopefully I'm not wrong cause I'm not going to learn a new stroke with finals coming up. Interesting thread

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by luvforty

'doesn't look normal' is right, unless you know what he is actually doing lol...

it's nothing too extraordinary, it's supination.

Fed does this, Stan does this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjBXVQyiwg

every bh he hits, his racket tip points to the back fence.

Dimi just happened to do that one quite violently.

Yes we all know it's supination. Nothing new. I'm pretty sure all the regulars here with a 1hbh are using supination. I"ve been doing that since I was a kid. I just don't end up with the racquet head on my back. Nobody else does either except dimitrov.

I wouldn't recommend him as a model for the 1hbh. Almagro, Stan, haas and even fed are better models to try to emulate.

[sureshs]

I am watching Almagro-Ferrer now, and while Al had several flashy DTL BHs (one at 90 mph), overall, many of his BHs are going short, and many of the attempted deeper ones are going long. I see a very clear superiority of control of the 2 hander by Ferrer, including much better net clearance, while Al is skimming the net. I really don't see a future for the 1 hander.