What more proof do we need that Nole is doping!

[BreakPoint]

Originally Posted by dimeaxe

Because they know how to cover things, that's why.

Wouldn't ALL doctors know how to cover things?

[Masayoshi]

Is Djokovic's level of endurance attainable without doping?

Outside of actual incriminating doping evidence, that's the key question, and no one has addressed this systematically. I have no clue as to the answer - I assume this is the domain of physiotherapists and such.

As long as we can't even answer this question in a scientific way, it seems silly to toss around doping allegations. I wouldn't be too surprised if tennis was as dirty as 90's/2000's era baseball, but assuming the worst is just as dumb as assuming the best.

[Sentinel]

Originally Posted by zagor

I knew Novak was doping ever since his 5 set win over Stepanek in 2007 USO, according to the ladies Radek's stamina is legendary yet Novak outlasted him no problem.

Yeah, I remember that match, iirc Nole's back was hurting from trying to keep up with Radek's "stamina". Took him 3 years to recover and win his first slam.

[BreakPoint]

Djokovic went from being the guy on tour with the worst stamina and endurance to being the guy with the best stamina and endurance seemingly overnight. That just doesn't happen without a little "help".

[TennisLovaLova]

Originally Posted by veroniquem

Emphatic no. Fed becomes an UE machine as soon as he's pushed and he doesn't have any plan B.

OK when he's on federror mode you're right
but didnt you enjoy the way he played vs Tomic and vs Raonic?

Originally Posted by BreakPoint

Djokovic went from being the guy on tour with the worst stamina and endurance to being the guy with the best stamina and endurance seemingly overnight. That just doesn't happen without a little "help".

The guy just made huge efforts in the gym and changed his diet.
Lots of guys I know in the gym and some guys I run semi-marathon with and who lost 15 Kgs in less than a year (lots of training and lots of nutrition change) quickly gained in stamina and endurance. They are not doping, just taking some whey and they used to take bcaa complexes during their first months of diet.
And those guys are not professionals.
I just imagine Djoker made the same or even more siginificant efforts, at the pro level, and it works for him.

[Djokodal Fan]

Hmmmmmm, say what now? he was fresh as a daisy even after a 5 hr marathon

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Originally Posted by Djokodal Fan

Hmmmmmm, say what now? he was fresh as a daisy even after a 5 hr marathon

Fresh or not, still can't hit an overhead.

[RF_fan]

Originally Posted by hersito

A few weeks ago on a radio show I heard a recently retired to 20 player, what he said was that probably a lot of players are doping but only the ones 100 and above in the ranking, he said that when you cross the 100 rank you get tested often and that if you start winning tournaments he saw it impossible to dope and play, he also said that he didn't think that there were silent bans. He was very open talking about it and it didn't seem that he was lying. He also said something like it didn't matter how much you doped, that you could be the incredible hulk but if you don't have the shots, the technic and you don't train a lot there is no way you can be a to 10.

It's obvious you cannot win simply with doping, you need to have technique. But if you take 2 players with equal skill and one of them dopes... he can run faster, and doesn't get tired after 3 hours, while another one is clean - who do you think will win?

Look at Lance. He was tested more frequently that tennis players and he was never caught. If you have money to buy designer drugs and hire good doctors then you're not likely to get caught.

[RF_fan]

Originally Posted by TennisLovaLova

The guy just made huge efforts in the gym and changed his diet.
Lots of guys I know in the gym and some guys I run semi-marathon with and who lost 15 Kgs in less than a year (lots of training and lots of nutrition change) quickly gained in stamina and endurance. They are not doping, just taking some whey and they used to take bcaa complexes during their first months of diet.
And those guys are not professionals.
I just imagine Djoker made the same or even more siginificant efforts, at the pro level, and it works for him.

And you don't think he trained hard before 2011?
It's funny how these players try to explain their miraculous results. Like Nadal's grip change that added 10 MPH to his serve. Did he just discover a new service grip after 10 years on tour?

[veroniquem]

Originally Posted by TennisLovaLova

OK when he's on federror mode you're right
but didnt you enjoy the way he played vs Tomic and vs Raonic?



.

The second set vs Tomic was very enjoyable. But I still prefer watching Nadal and Djoko: more energy, better return game. With Fed, it's all about the serve or attacking quickly. Nothing wrong with that but he lacks patience and consistency in longer points.

[PrinceMoron]

The only dope around here...

[Nostradamus]

Originally Posted by kragster

After 3 exhausting and grueling matches, especially the one against Ryan Harrison, he is able to outlast Stan the man, widely known as the fittest guy in the history of the sport. And not just outlast him but beat him in a fairly one sided final set.

If this is not incontrovertible evidence that he is doping, then I don't know what is.

proof is that gluten free diet. what is he replacing the gluten with ? I wonder......hummmmm. and why is his butt so purky and round ?

[MaiDee]

Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo

Fresh or not, still can't hit an overhead.

Overhead or not, still No.1 in world.

[Gru]

I doubt fed or djokovic are doing something illegal. However those players whose hair is thinning and falling off are suspicious imo. Some players that this sudden hair loss /thinning is happening to: Nadal, Murray, Gasquet.

All 3 of then are getting male pattern baldness (top of the head), and some really weird looking thin hair. Pay attention to that when cameras are zooming in. It can be a sign of doping.. they are not 45.

I do not see anything on the "outside" for Fed or Djokovic that would suggest steroids.. one can even argue that they are on the skinny side, with no abnormally developed muscles - look at Berdych's and Murray's legs and Nadal's "guns"?

Being an "elegant" mover (very relaxed), allows Federer to be what he is, and nothing tells me that he has some extra strength.

For Novak, it is his overall low body weight (he doesn't have to carry 200 pounds as Murray) that allows him to move fast and stay fresh after 5 hours, and flexibility (doping will not help with being flexible) that allows him to be so successful. There is no doubt that Djokovic is also very fit, but it is not in a way that looks suspicious to me. When he rips his shirt off, he looks like a very fit scrawny guy. What I mean is he doesn't have broad shoulders like Tsonga, nor does he have legs like Berdych, nor arms like Serena / Stosur.

His ability to play 5 hours matches is remarkable, but it is something he sucked at in early days of his career and is most likely what he works most on currently. Coupled with what I mentioned above, doesn't look strange to me at all.

Just my 2 billion cents.

[vwfye]

Originally Posted by Gru

All 3 of then are getting male pattern baldness (top of the head), and some really weird looking thin hair. Pay attention to that when cameras are zooming in. It can be a sign of doping.. they are not 45.

My hair started falling out @ 19. I've never taken anything, but I played tennis! Hmmm....

I'm selling all my sticks and maybe my hair will grow back!

[Gru]

Yes, I have a friend who started losing hair in high school. Doesn't happen that often, no? Also did you lose your hair the same way as Nadal, Murray and Gasquet? It is very similar how they are losing their hair. Normally everyone will lose hair differently, or will you deny that as well.

Did 20% - 30% of your friends also lose hair by mid 20's. Sports are becoming a big joke, and it is more than obvious that there are many cases of wrong doing.

Hair loss, huge muscles can be a give away, that is all I am saying.

Berdych has cankles instead of knees. Serena can beat up 95% of male tennis players, in a street fight. Stosur can bench more than 99% of geeks on this forum.

[vwfye]

Sorry, but I hate over generalizations based on speculation...

[Dagobah]

I do believe Djokovic is doping, but we need proof. He will remain the GOAT until we find out exactly what hes using.

[Steve0904]

Originally Posted by veroniquem

The second set vs Tomic was very enjoyable. But I still prefer watching Nadal and Djoko: more energy, better return game. With Fed, it's all about the serve or attacking quickly. Nothing wrong with that but he lacks patience and consistency in longer points.

As you said, nothing wrong with it, but what do you want him to do? He will not out grind Nadal or Djokovic these days. Probably never did anyway.

Personally I think Nadal and Djokovic don't attack enough when they have the chance, but there's nothing wrong with that either when you can defend like they can.

[Polaris]

Here is why we don't agree. Two squarely different schools of thought. Sadly, yours is the more contemporary one.

Originally Posted by veroniquem

But I still prefer watching Nadal and Djoko: more energy, better return game. With Fed, it's all about the serve or attacking quickly. Nothing wrong with that but he lacks patience and consistency in longer points.

Originally Posted by Modified by Polaris

But I still prefer watching Federer: more creativity, better offensive game. With Rafa, it's all about the baseline or defending dourly. Nothing wrong with that but he lacks finesse and innovation in shorter points.