3.0 . . . Anyone?

[Avles]

Originally Posted by anubis

Poly is good for players who can't keep the ball in play. Soft, powerful syn gut strings strung at the low end of a tension range is a recipe for a 3.0 to hit the ball long quite often. Instead, if they used a stiff string, low powered poly, with greater access to spin, it will be much easier for them to keep the ball in play.

Is that really the way to improve though? If you need to use poly string to keep the ball in play, to me that suggests that there are problems with your swing. Might be better to address those problems than to rely on a string that will counteract them, if your goal is to progress and not just to win at your current level.

I can understand strong players choosing a poly string so that they can hit more aggressively and keep the ball in play, but 3.0s? Just seems like strange logic to me.

[Muppet]

Originally Posted by anubis

Poly is good for players who can't keep the ball in play. Soft, powerful syn gut strings strung at the low end of a tension range is a recipe for a 3.0 to hit the ball long quite often. Instead, if they used a stiff string, low powered poly, with greater access to spin, it will be much easier for them to keep the ball in play.

IMO, the one and only goal in tennis is to keep the ball in play. If you can't hit it within the lines of the court, you can't win. It doesn't matter if you hit with a ton of TS, or if you have 65 mph groundies if they don't land within the court.

This sheds light on how my game has been. I would always use a long, smooth (measured) stroke using multis. I've been trying to incorporate poly strings into my game without great results, until recently. I'm learning the unit turn and a modified eastern grip, from eastern, on the forhand side. I've started getting results from a much faster stroke using a poly/multi hybrid. I'm also switching to a ohbh, but that will take longer before I see progress.

[Hi I'm Ray]

Muppet,

You need to place the ball where you want to and when you want, to do some damage. Look for the smart targets thread somewhere on the first or second page of the tips section. Those are really good spots to practice for. And of course you need to stay consistent to avoid beating yourself.

If you don't have a coach, try to practice repetitions, basic movement & footwork, watching the ball, and hitting targets, by yourself as if you did have one.

Try this, practice by yourself, get on the court and position yourself as though you are going to drop feed yourself a backhand, toss the ball up just high enough to give yourself some time to run around and hit a forehand instead. Hit it to one of the smart targets with good pace. Sounds easy but I'd bet a lot of people 4.0 & under would have a hard time getting say 7-8 out of 10. There's a lot going on, you're moving a lot with your feet repositioning yourself and making small adjustments to set up for the right contact point, you're watching the ball closely and setting up your stroke to generate your own power off a paceless ball that is traveling more vertically than horizontally, then you're trying to consistently hit a target. That is a lot to coordinate. Do this for both targets, from the middle and sides of the court, for both high and low balls. Repeat for your backhand side. Work on one shot consecutively (one target and one ball height).
Doesn't sound cool? Maybe paying someone $50/hr to toss balls to you does? Of course you would be getting an extra pair of eyes and corrections with a coach, but its still good practice for all of the points above. You also get to make the bulk of your mistakes in practice so you won't during a game, and its good run-around forehand practice too. I'm pretty sure most ppl won't try this because it sounds too simplistic, but if they can't consistently do well on a simple excerice like this they aren't breaking into the better ranks anytime soon. You can think of it as a self-test & prove it to yourself if it sounds too easy. Practice this 1-1.5 hours once a week and I'm sure you'll be breaking out of the 3.5's.

[Muppet]

Originally Posted by Hi I'm Ray

Muppet,

You need to place the ball where you want to and when you want, to do some damage. Look for the smart targets thread somewhere on the first or second page of the tips section. Those are really good spots to practice for. And of course you need to stay consistent to avoid beating yourself.

If you don't have a coach, try to practice repetitions, basic movement & footwork, watching the ball, and hitting targets, by yourself as if you did have one.

Try this, practice by yourself, get on the court and position yourself as though you are going to drop feed yourself a backhand, toss the ball up just high enough to give yourself some time to run around and hit a forehand instead. Hit it to one of the smart targets with good pace. Sounds easy but I'd bet a lot of people 4.0 & under would have a hard time getting say 7-8 out of 10. There's a lot going on, you're moving a lot with your feet repositioning yourself and making small adjustments to set up for the right contact point, you're watching the ball closely and setting up your stroke to generate your own power off a paceless ball that is traveling more vertically than horizontally, then you're trying to consistently hit a target. That is a lot to coordinate. Do this for both targets, from the middle and sides of the court, for both high and low balls. Repeat for your backhand side. Work on one shot consecutively (one target and one ball height).
Doesn't sound cool? Maybe paying someone $50/hr to toss balls to you does? Of course you would be getting an extra pair of eyes and corrections with a coach, but its still good practice for all of the points above. You also get to make the bulk of your mistakes in practice so you won't during a game, and its good run-around forehand practice too. I'm pretty sure most ppl won't try this because it sounds too simplistic, but if they can't consistently do well on a simple excerice like this they aren't breaking into the better ranks anytime soon. You can think of it as a self-test & prove it to yourself if it sounds too easy. Practice this 1-1.5 hours once a week and I'm sure you'll be breaking out of the 3.5's.

Thanks for the reply Ray. I'm only willing to part with the price of the clinic because I hope to meet up with some regular tennis partners.

It ocurred to me what's missing in my tennis. Ten+ years ago I used to grind against a wall, hitting on one bounce and challenging myself to hit more and more balls before I would miss. This gave me quick feet and reaction time. Unfortunately, I can't find a decent wall to hit against anywhere near my house.

This goes back to the lack of a tennis culture in Boston. I've received cursory comments at times when I've used a ball machine at a club, or hit against a wall, or even practiced my serve. People around here see tennis as a social activity rather than a sport. Even within the tennis community it's often considered a 'social sport'. It's pretty weak. Gives me a mind to pull up stakes and move to FL or CA. I might just do that if my family didn't need me here.

[TomT]

Originally Posted by Muppet

It ocurred to me what's missing in my tennis. Ten+ years ago I used to grind against a wall, hitting on one bounce and challenging myself to hit more and more balls before I would miss. This gave me quick feet and reaction time. Unfortunately, I can't find a decent wall to hit against anywhere near my house.

This goes back to the lack of a tennis culture in Boston. I've received cursory comments at times when I've used a ball machine at a club, or hit against a wall, or even practiced my serve. People around here see tennis as a social activity rather than a sport. Even within the tennis community it's often considered a 'social sport'. It's pretty weak. Gives me a mind to pull up stakes and move to FL or CA. I might just do that if my family didn't need me here.

Yes, move to southeast FL Muppet. I absolutely guarantee that you'll be glad you did.

I basically agree with Avles statements re strings. I've been using a 105sq.in. racquet (Babolat Y105) with syn gut strings at 54 lbs, and it's easy to hit long with that setup. I had to learn to be much less lazy in my stroking in order to keep the ball in. But now I think I'm ready to move to a smaller head racquet, say 95, strung a little tighter -- not going with poly yet though. I don't think poly is necessary at sub 4.0 levels.

Then again, if you're getting good results due to the poly, then it's hard to argue against that.

Come to think of it, I experimented with a friend's poly-strung Babolat (Pure Drive I think it was) racquet and it did seem to be quite easy to keep the ball in on high-bouncing balls to both fh and bh ... balls that I tend to hit out with my racquet-string setup unless I'm super careful to hit it just right. With the poly setup there seemed to be much more margin for error. It felt a LOT different than my setup ... in a good way.

So, maybe I should get a poly setup to work with and see what happens.

[Muppet]

Originally Posted by TomT

Yes, move to southeast FL Muppet. I absolutely guarantee that you'll be glad you did.

I basically agree with Avles statements re strings. I've been using a 105sq.in. racquet (Babolat Y105) with syn gut strings at 54 lbs, and it's easy to hit long with that setup. I had to learn to be much less lazy in my stroking in order to keep the ball in. But now I think I'm ready to move to a smaller head racquet, say 95, strung a little tighter -- not going with poly yet though. I don't think poly is necessary at sub 4.0 levels.

Then again, if you're getting good results due to the poly, then it's hard to argue against that.

Come to think of it, I experimented with a friend's poly-strung Babolat (Pure Drive I think it was) racquet and it did seem to be quite easy to keep the ball in on high-bouncing balls to both fh and bh ... balls that I tend to hit out with my racquet-string setup unless I'm super careful to hit it just right. With the poly setup there seemed to be much more margin for error. It felt a LOT different than my setup ... in a good way.

So, maybe I should get a poly setup to work with and see what happens.

They say to decrease by 10% below your full multi setup, but i'd drop down two lb. lower than that. For 55 lb. multi I'd say 47 lb. poly. I'm hybriding Cyber Flash 1.25 / Hexy Fiber 16 at 48/53 in a Dunlop MuscleWeave 95.

[TomT]

Originally Posted by Muppet

They say to decrease by 10% below your full multi setup, but i'd drop down two lb. lower than that. For 55 lb. multi I'd say 47 lb. poly. I'm hybriding Cyber Flash 1.25 / Hexy Fiber 16 at 48/53 in a Dunlop MuscleWeave 95.

Thanks for the info Muppet. Keep us posted on your progress. Vids if possible.

[Muppet]

Originally Posted by TomT

Thanks for the info Muppet. Keep us posted on your progress. Vids if possible.

I can keep you posted, but I have no camera or smartphone for shooting video. Maybe the instructor for my clinic can judge what level I'm at.

[Power Player]

Originally Posted by Avles

Is that really the way to improve though? If you need to use poly string to keep the ball in play, to me that suggests that there are problems with your swing. Might be better to address those problems than to rely on a string that will counteract them, if your goal is to progress and not just to win at your current level.

I can understand strong players choosing a poly string so that they can hit more aggressively and keep the ball in play, but 3.0s? Just seems like strange logic to me.

Exactly. If you can't hit the ball in with topspin using syngut, the poly is pointless. The whole point of poly is for players with developed topspin to be able to hit harder and keep the ball in. Almost every player started with syn gu, and anyone who can't keep the ball in play with syngut has no reason to use poly.

[Muppet]

Originally Posted by Power Player

Exactly. If you can't hit the ball in with topspin using syngut, the poly is pointless. The whole point of poly is for players with developed topspin to be able to hit harder and keep the ball in. Almost every player started with syn gu, and anyone who can't keep the ball in play with syngut has no reason to use poly.

PP

I fit into this description of a player who can benefit from poly, except that I'm a 3.0. I leapt up to poly level when I shifted from an eastern grip to a modified eastern on the forhand. I'm also implementing a unit turn that makes me swing alot faster after I release the racquet with the off hand. Next I need to add opening the hips.

I used to use multis, but I wouldn't trust them with the new stroke. I don't think syn guts would work as well either. My serve is better than it has ever been. My backhand still needs some work, as I'm attempting to switch to a one-hander. I know, too many changes at once.

So what I did was switch to a poly hybrid and I'm catching up with my technique, rather than plateau on syn gut and eventually switch to poly. Thanks for your contributions.

Muppet

[Power Player]

You never really plateau on syn gut. If you are not using your hips in your stroke, then your technique is not proper, and you are arming the ball. Worst thing you can do with poly.

[Muppet]

Originally Posted by Power Player

You never really plateau on syn gut. If you are not using your hips in your stroke, then your technique is not proper, and you are arming the ball. Worst thing you can do with poly.

Thanks, I can see what you mean by arming the ball. I'll ask about that when I take the clinic.

[Muppet]

Is it the usual in a group clinic for the instructor to just run drills and feed balls? I was expecting some help with my technique. And he has a pretty snide demeanor. I can't even get any of my money back either. I guess all I can do is show up for the lessons and hope for the best.

[Dave M]

A group session i'd expect to have some drills probably some matches maybe depending on the level of the group some technical stuff to work on.
You're looking for private instruction by the sound of it Muppet.

[Muppet]

The clinic is for eight sessions and is for 3.0 and 3.5 players. The pace is faster than I expected. You may be right that I would benefit more from private lessons. But then I would probably be missing the drills.

[Muppet]

Last night's session was much better. The pro was giving us pointers during the drills and he actually gave us water breaks this time. They are letting me try the next level down for a session so I can see if it's more suited to me. After that I can choose.

I found last night that I can perform much better playing points much better than in drills.

[ATP100]

Originally Posted by Muppet

I'm a 3.0 player and I use relatively heavy racquets. I've been working on my serve, which I'm hitting pretty solid now. More recently, I have switched my ground stroke grips and I am hitting a really solid TS forhand. My backhand still needs another grip change.

The problem I've noticed is that my power was already above 3.0 level with an eastern forhand and two handed backhand. My regular partner is at least 3.5 and he always beats me. I'm wondering if I continue to work on my strokes will it seperate me further from the 3.0 sector, and if perhaps I should slow down on technique improvement and spend more time playing other 3.0s? There isn't much of a tennis culture here in Boston, so most of the time I find myself grinding on skills, which is fun in itself, but maybe counter productive.

Does he beat you, or do you beat yourself with errors??
Be honest, that way we can help you.

[volleygirl]

Originally Posted by Muppet

PP

I fit into this description of a player who can benefit from poly, except that I'm a 3.0. I leapt up to poly level when I shifted from an eastern grip to a modified eastern on the forhand. I'm also implementing a unit turn that makes me swing alot faster after I release the racquet with the off hand. Next I need to add opening the hips.

I used to use multis, but I wouldn't trust them with the new stroke. I don't think syn guts would work as well either. My serve is better than it has ever been. My backhand still needs some work, as I'm attempting to switch to a one-hander. I know, too many changes at once.

So what I did was switch to a poly hybrid and I'm catching up with my technique, rather than plateau on syn gut and eventually switch to poly. Thanks for your contributions.

Muppet

Muppet,

You sound like a guy I know who wants to be good at golf but he thinks he can just buy high priced clubs to take away all his blunders. If youre a 3.0, thinking that you can use a poly string and that will instantly make you a quality player is kidding yourself.

[Relinquis]

Keep developing your better strokes, but work on your weaknesses as well.

it doesn't matter how pretty or strong your strokes are when you get a perfectly set up ball with pace*; unless you can hit-back the loopy pace-less backspin shots that your 3.0 comrades deliver to you consistently you will have no hope against the low biting slice or the high kicking topspin that you will see at the higher levels.

* it always feels good to hit a proper stroke off of a decently paced ball; but in tennis you have to be able to adjust to other shots.

[Muppet]

Originally Posted by ATP100

Does he beat you, or do you beat yourself with errors??
Be honest, that way we can help you.

He beats me by ending the points quickly and his backhand slice confounds me. He claims to be a 3.5, but I'd guess he's a 4.0 with his easy strokes and developed court sense. He started playing when he was five and we're in our fourties. I'm basically slamming my head against a wall with him, but until I develop a list of partners he's what I've got.