Lew Hoad-A discussion on his career

[BobbyOne]

Originally Posted by Dan Lobb

Again, we need at least the location, date, and score (if possible. Knowing the score helps to solidify the result). We can GUESS at the surface, but not always. For example, the pro tournaments at Melbourne in 1964 and 1967 were NOT held at Kooyong, probably indoor at the Olympic pool on cheap carpet. The Australian Tennis Federation had banned the pros from the major outdoor grasscourts.

Dan, You should take the same rigid measure at your own claims such as your strange 14:0 series of Hoad vs. Laver

[Dan Lobb]

Originally Posted by BobbyOne

Dan, You should take the same rigid measure at your own claims such as your strange 14:0 series of Hoad vs. Laver

Good Point.

[BobbyOne]

Originally Posted by Dan Lobb

Good Point.

Dan, thanks for your understanding.

[krosero]

Originally Posted by Dan Lobb

Krosero, did you actually believe that Bobby was referring to a real match?

No. BobbyOne's post was in jest, and so was mine.

Originally Posted by Dan Lobb

Good Point.

Decent of you to say, Dan.
(That's meant sincerely, no sarcasm.)

[Dan Lobb]

Originally Posted by BobbyOne

Dan, You should take the same rigid measure at your own claims such as your strange 14:0 series of Hoad vs. Laver

Actually, the 14 to 0 claims were not made by Hoad himself (unlike your quote of Rosewall), but by Laver and Bucholz.
However, I think that what these extra six matches consist of are unrecorded exhibition matches, clearly of a lesser value than regular tournament or hth tour matches.
I think that Rosewall's reference was puffed by the inclusion of exhibition matches, for example, I read that Rosewall won an 8 to 0 exhibition series against Hoad in mid-1960. There exists no records of locations, dates, or scores.
Similarly, Laver beat Hoad in an exhibition series in Laver's home state in Jan. 1964, 7 matches to 1. This was also unrecorded as to date, location, and scores, only the final tally reported somewhere. Like the 1960 series against Rosewall, these results are almost never mentioned in the history reviews.
We should draw a distinction between such exhibition series and a more regular tour, such as the New Zealand tour of 1964, where most of the results, dates, locations, scores were reported.

[Dan Lobb]

Originally Posted by BobbyOne

Dan, You should take the same rigid measure at your own claims such as your strange 14:0 series of Hoad vs. Laver

We should probably not regard any match seriously where we do not know the date, location, or score.
This criterion would exclude many exhibition matches.

[tomwill65]

Does anyone know of a round robin event played around 1963 or 64. It was on television i think it took place in Los Angeles as there a lot of film stars there . The players from memory were Hoad ,Rosewall ,Laver ,Olmedo,Bucholz and Gimeno, it was a one advantage set first to 10 games .i think Rosewall won it.Cheers TomWILL 65

[tomwill65]

Originally Posted by tomwill65

Does anyone know of a round robin event played around 1963 or 64. It was on television i think it took place in Los Angeles as there a lot of film stars there . The players from memory were Hoad ,Rosewall ,Laver ,Olmedo,Bucholz and Gimeno, it was a one advantage set first to 10 games .i think Rosewall won it.Cheers TomWILL 65

I can also remember Jack Kramer introducing Rosewall and Hoad as number one and two in the world, a long time ago.TomWill

[Mustard]

That would have been in 1963 when Rosewall and Hoad were the top 2 professional players, or perhaps 1962. Not 1964, because Laver was in the top 2 by then for sure.

[Dan Lobb]

Originally Posted by Mustard

That would have been in 1963 when Rosewall and Hoad were the top 2 professional players, or perhaps 1962. Not 1964, because Laver was in the top 2 by then for sure.

It was in June, 1964, the Masters round robin in L.A. with a pro set format.
Rosewall defeated Sedgman in the final.
Hoad had won the New Zealand tour earlier that year over Laver and Rosewall.
At this point, Laver had not won a big event.

[Dan Lobb]

Originally Posted by tomwill65

I can also remember Jack Kramer introducing Rosewall and Hoad as number one and two in the world, a long time ago.TomWill

As late as June 1964, Hoad was still regarded as one of the top two professionals.

[urban]

With how many big events won?

[Dan Lobb]

Originally Posted by urban

With how many big events won?

In 1964 Hoad won the New Zealand tour, beating Laver 3 matches to 1, Anderson 3 matches to 1, and was 1 and 3 against Rosewall (losing the first 3 matches, winning the fourth and series-deciding match).
Laver was 1 and 3 against Hoad, 3 and 1 against Rosewall, 3 and 1 against Anderson.
Rosewall was 3 and 1 against Hoad, 1 and 3 against Laver, 2 and 2 against Anderson.
Anderson was 4 and 8 overall.

By June, Laver had still not won an important pro event, but would soon win the US Pro at Longwood.

[Dan Lobb]

Originally Posted by urban

With how many big events won?

As a pro?
Two world pro tournament championships in 1958 and 1959.
The 1960 New Zealand Tour (over Anderson, Sedgman, and Cooper.)
The first Japanese Pro Championship in 1960 (on clay over Rosewall, 11-9 in the fifth set).
Two Kramer Cup wins in 1961 (beating Trabert in the final, deciding match), and 1962 ( a ferocious performance in the final against Olmedo).
The 1962 Facis Trophy Italian tour.
An 8 to 0 win against Laver in the 1963 Australian tour, including the big one at Kooyong (6-3 in the fifth set).
The 1964 New Zealand Tour.

[BobbyOne]

Originally Posted by Dan Lobb

As a pro?
Two world pro tournament championships in 1958 and 1959.
The 1960 New Zealand Tour (over Anderson, Sedgman, and Cooper.)
The first Japanese Pro Championship in 1960 (on clay over Rosewall, 11-9 in the fifth set).
Two Kramer Cup wins in 1961 (beating Trabert in the final, deciding match), and 1962 ( a ferocious performance in the final against Olmedo).
The 1962 Facis Trophy Italian tour.
An 8 to 0 win against Laver in the 1963 Australian tour, including the big one at Kooyong (6-3 in the fifth set).
The 1964 New Zealand Tour.

Dan, I'm convinced urban meant only 1964.

[Dan Lobb]

Originally Posted by BobbyOne

Dan, I'm convinced urban meant only 1964.

Whatever he meant, this answer should cover it.

[urban]

Really?...

[Dan Lobb]

Originally Posted by urban

Really?...

In L.A., Hoad was coming off a 3 to 1 tour victory over Laver.
That should answer the question.

[Dan Lobb]

Originally Posted by Dan Lobb

As a pro?
Two world pro tournament championships in 1958 and 1959.
The 1960 New Zealand Tour (over Anderson, Sedgman, and Cooper.)
The first Japanese Pro Championship in 1960 (on clay over Rosewall, 11-9 in the fifth set).
Two Kramer Cup wins in 1961 (beating Trabert in the final, deciding match), and 1962 ( a ferocious performance in the final against Olmedo).
The 1962 Facis Trophy Italian tour.
An 8 to 0 win against Laver in the 1963 Australian tour, including the big one at Kooyong (6-3 in the fifth set).
The 1964 New Zealand Tour.

One should add the 1957 South African tour, which he won over Rosewall, Segura, and Kramer.
It was during this tour that the famous incident took place in a South African bar, when the players entered and one South African man apparently made an objectionable remark about Segura.
Hoad walked over to the man, grabbed THE FRONT LEGS OF HIS CHAIR, and raised him up to eye level, saying "Shut the.....up", and let go the chair.
I do not see anywhere that Segura ever returned to play in South Africa.
Incidentally, I do not see that Hoad had any back trouble between June 1957, following a six-week body cast, and February 27, 1958, when his back gave out again at Palm Springs, after he had dominated a string of matches against Gonzales 15 to 3. (Yes, that is 15 to 3.)
Thus, his back allowed him to perform the famous feat in South Africa.