Problem with USPTA instructor

[tkoziol]

Originally Posted by 10s talk

D3 schools don't have tennis scholarships

Perhaps your thinking of a full ride? I was offered half tuition, and academics covered the other half. I was told that they did not offer full tuition for athletics. My D3 school was a private institution, perhaps its different....

[tkoziol]

Originally Posted by mxmx

I feel your pain. I am not close to being qualified myself.

I have however been spending a lot of time investing in a couple of younger players than myself who cannot afford coaching. I spend more time and effort than some coaches who ask money would ever do. Thankfully I have seen improvement in their game and its very self fulfilling knowing you can help someone. The problem comes that people imply that you teach them wrong techniques just to bring you down....or due to being jealous for taking a potential student away. I have seen some very good, qualified coaches with worse technique than myself. There isn't a perfect coach, and some are better teaching this and other that. Sometimes I just want to get the papers so people will get off my back. Or maybe this feeling of judgement is self inflicted :P

I think qualified is the wrong word choice. I prefer to use the term certified in a sport that is non-certifiable

I got my low level certifications just to have the "papers" like you are talking about. I almost never get asked about my certification (except from other instructors of course). Typically I just let my results speak for themselves.

I don't think anyone is a perfect instructor. I do think that instructors should be judged by their knowledge, their methods of instruction, and the results of their students, NOT a piece of paper.

[Mongolmike]

Originally Posted by sureshs

I always get a kick when reading sentences like that (interpret it as a person).

Well yeah... do you think I string them myself? Mine was hand-delivered by this little Filipino man named Felix. He took the stringer into the basement where I showed him to take it, he set it up, then got to work stringing.

Of course I have to provide the strings, and I threw him a blanket and a pillow, but its all good. When ever I go down there he is standing there ready to start stringing. Nice fellow. Doesn't talk much either.

[sureshs]

About half the men I play with are Filipinos. Never met an unfriendly Filipino.

RSI mag is a good source of jokes if you interpret stringer as a person. For example, Get yourself a new stringer - they are cheaper and better than the old ones.

Or, My stringer has stopped working. There is a piece of string lodged in a crevice and I cannot pull it out.

[10s talk]

Originally Posted by tkoziol

Perhaps your thinking of a full ride? I was offered half tuition, and academics covered the other half. I was told that they did not offer full tuition for athletics. My D3 school was a private institution, perhaps its different....

I have been a NCAA certified D3 coach, and any athletic scholarship money is a major violation.

[tkoziol]

Originally Posted by 10s talk

I have been a NCAA certified D3 coach, and any athletic scholarship money is a major violation.

Totally correct. It was division II, NAIA My fault

[Cindysphinx]

OP, I would say you probably should get the highest certifications you can.

I am not a teaching pro, but I have hired teaching pros to help me. I go with word of mouth, of course. But I probably would not consider anyone who was not affiliated with one of the tennis clubs.

The reason is not snobbery or anything. It is just that if the person is with a club, I know that they have been checked out at least a little bit and I am probably not going to find myself chained in someone's basement. And if you aren't certified, you aren't going to be hired by a club.

Also, it is cold or raining here quite often. I need someone with indoor privileges. Again, that means someone who is certified and can teach at a facility.

That said, I do not know or ask or care whether any pro I have used is certified. In fact, if a pro used certification as a selling point, I would immediately be suspicious given that I consider it meaningless. If someone doesn't know how to feed or drill or play, I will notice this quickly regardless of certification status.

[tkoziol]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

OP, I would say you probably should get the highest certifications you can.

I am not a teaching pro, but I have hired teaching pros to help me. I go with word of mouth, of course. But I probably would not consider anyone who was not affiliated with one of the tennis clubs.

The reason is not snobbery or anything. It is just that if the person is with a club, I know that they have been checked out at least a little bit and I am probably not going to find myself chained in someone's basement. And if you aren't certified, you aren't going to be hired by a club.

Also, it is cold or raining here quite often. I need someone with indoor privileges. Again, that means someone who is certified and can teach at a facility.

That said, I do not know or ask or care whether any pro I have used is certified. In fact, if a pro used certification as a selling point, I would immediately be suspicious given that I consider it meaningless. If someone doesn't know how to feed or drill or play, I will notice this quickly regardless of certification status.

Well don't worry you won't find yourself chained up in my basement. There's no room with my stringer being down there

I do hear ya with the weather though. I am looking to relocate so I can teach year-round outdoors.

[treblings]

Originally Posted by tkoziol

I think qualified is the wrong word choice. I prefer to use the term certified in a sport that is non-certifiable

I got my low level certifications just to have the "papers" like you are talking about. I almost never get asked about my certification (except from other instructors of course). Typically I just let my results speak for themselves.

I don't think anyone is a perfect instructor. I do think that instructors should be judged by their knowledge, their methods of instruction, and the results of their students, NOT a piece of paper.

i agree with your points.
the questions to ask yourself are this though.
am i the best coach that i can be, and what can i do to improve myself

when i took my certification course, i had some of the best coaches in my country as instructors. people who developed pro players. don´t think for a moment, that you can´t learn from their experience.
i had fellow students often with years of coaching experience, and we shared stories and learned from each other as well.
after my certification i made sure to attend seminars and conferences on a regular basis to stay on top of developments. because as you pointed out, the sport is changing constantly, and we have to adapt or be left behind.

so you see, that´s my reality. and if you declare a certification just a piece of paper, you might deprive yourself of a lot of knowledge

[BaboFan]

Originally Posted by Mongolmike

Well yeah... do you think I string them myself? Mine was hand-delivered by this little Filipino man named Felix. He took the stringer into the basement where I showed him to take it, he set it up, then got to work stringing.

Of course I have to provide the strings, and I threw him a blanket and a pillow, but its all good. When ever I go down there he is standing there ready to start stringing. Nice fellow. Doesn't talk much either.

best post
10 chars

[comeback]

I am certified for 18 years and it was a good move for me.
PLUSES
The information,monthly magazine,conferences, videos made available
Insurance was cheaper
Makes getting jobs easier
I was able to get free tennis working vacations in Caribbean

NEGATIVES
cost money to get certified, and each level up, yearly dues

You are 100% correct about certain certified teachers. Many didn't play at a high level and went the academic route thus explaining their elitist attitude and lack of real life teaching skills.

[sureshs]

The local USTA chapter annual report lists the USPTA certified coaches in the area. The new one arrived, and as every year, I got a kick finding Rod Laver listed along with the others, in the same font and hidden in the clutter.

[dennis10is]

Originally Posted by tkoziol

Hello everyone,

I been visiting this forum for several years, though never actually registered. I recently encountered an uncomfortable situation that prompted me to make an account and get feedback from the masses.

Backstory: I am a 5.0 player, received scholarship at D3 school, became tennis instructor (have been teaching for past 5 years). Received recreational coach certification from USPTA, as well as high school coaching certification. Found the certification process to be interesting but mostly useless. Most of the drills and techniques I already knew, and there was some outdated content.

Situation: Returning a demo to local pro shop and discussed a former ATP player who is a new instructor in the area. The shop worker (also an instructor) did not like this person at all! Said that he needs USPTA certification, doesn't know how to teach. I mentioned that his students seem very talented and his teaching methods are similar to mine (big mistake). Instantly I was questioned about my certification history, which wasn't good enough apparently. Although I had several students who went all-state, received scholarships, or greatly improved their NTRP rating, I had no clue what I was doing because I haven't got "official certification". I've seen this individual play tennis and I would guess late 40's and 3.5 at best. Trying to polite, I remained calm and simply agreed that I should get more certification (then promptly left the shop).

Am I crazy?!?! Despite my results as a player and instructor, I have serious doubts about myself now. A good friend of mine is certified by PTR. Is this just like high school with "cliques" and I'm not part of the USPTA club, or is this person mad that I am teaching the same thing (perhaps a bit more modern) without all the red tape of certification and yearly dues? Almost all of the drills that I have seen instructors do I have found online watching youtube videos (or already done the drills myself). FYB does a great job with this. I have yet to see a magical skill that USPTA or PTR instructors have that has impressed me. If anything, I am disappointed in seeing some instructors teaching all students the same regardless of age or skill level (almost like they had it planned out before even meeting the individual).

I respect my fellow instructors whether they are PTR, USPTA, ITF, MTM, former ATP pro, or simply a high level player teaching. I do not believe that this respect is mutual. Is it wrong to think that tennis is constantly evolving and is therefore difficult to certify? I can't help but feel that the USPTA is trying to strictly certify something that is not certifiable to make money. Do ATP coaches have certificates? Different sport, but a legitimate question, does anyone know if college or NFL football coaches have certificates? It makes me think of tennis pros who said Rafael Nadal would never succeed with his lasso reverse forehand, or Roddick's unorthodox serve motion would never succeed.

Perhaps I'm inadvertently portraying myself as "better" than the USPTA? I really hope that I am not.

So many questions! Any feedback would be greatly appreciated! Especially from USPTA pros

Thank you everyone! Sorry for giant block of text!

Tell them you are TW forum certified, and that will impressed them. Forum members here are more knowledgeable than those coaches you see on TV, coaching those tennis actor, performing on ESPN/2.

[sureshs]

TW is the real proving ground.

[rkelley]

FWIW, the certification thing is probably a good thing to do if you plan on making a career of teaching tennis. People like the pieces of paper. It does show at least a certain level of knowledge. I'd treat it as a necessary but not sufficient condition.

You also have to be a student of this game. It's constantly changing and good teachers keep up with the change. Good teachers have methods of teaching as well. It's one thing to know what the final stroke should look like, it's another thing to know how to bring someone along in steps so that they can get there.

It's also important to know the variations that you'll come across. What's the difference between teaching a high level Western forehand verses a high level strong Eastern forehand? Weak teachers just try to force everyone into the same mold. Strong teachers understand the differences in the game and work with their student's preferences. A good teacher also knows when to push a student to change something that won't work (a high level player that wants to volley with baseline grips for instance).

The certifications will help you get jobs and send a message of professionalism. The lifetime of knowledge are what's going to help you be successful at your job.

Originally Posted by tkoziol

Heartland actually... Northern California would be nice weather though



I only know of one USPTA instructor here who teaches reverse FH, but he hates WW FH. He also doesn't teach slice to students under the age of 16.

I guess what confuses me the most is how different USPTA instructors teach. Aside from the basic fundamentals of tennis, there are almost no similarities. It does seem that most of their education occurs after the certification process, evident by wildly different teaching philosophies, teaching tools being used, and results with students.

You have to understand, that the certification process is just taking a test, that most just "cram" for......It really has nothing to do with abilities to develop games..That comes from experience. In fact, what I've found is that there is a relationship between and emphasis on certification and poor instruction. Most of us in the business, find the whole process laughable.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by chico9166

You have to understand, that the certification process is just taking a test, that most just "cram" for......It really has nothing to do with abilities to develop games..That comes from experience. In fact, what I've found is that there is a relationship between and emphasis on certification and poor instruction. Most of us in the business, find the whole process laughable.

You give the impression that it is some kind of online written test only. I don't think so.

http://tennis.about.com/od/jobsandte...eachpro2_2.htm

To gain USPTA certification, you must pass an exam that includes:

demonstrating your own proficiency at executing various strokes
teaching a group and a private lesson
analyzing stroke errors
demonstrating grips
passing a written exam that covers a wide range of tennis topics, including teaching, playing, equipment, and history

Originally Posted by sureshs

You give the impression that it is some kind of online written test only. I don't think so.

http://tennis.about.com/od/jobsandte...eachpro2_2.htm

To gain USPTA certification, you must pass an exam that includes:

demonstrating your own proficiency at executing various strokes
teaching a group and a private lesson
analyzing stroke errors
demonstrating grips
passing a written exam that covers a wide range of tennis topics, including teaching, playing, equipment, and history

Uhh, I've done it.. Many of my lessons have done it over the years. Again, passing the test, or even doing well on the test certainly does not prove much in terms of developing games. Suresh, do you work for the USTA? You seem like the prototype, which is a middle aged hack who has never actually been on the court, but seems to think they have all the answers.

[sureshs]

That is called a stereotype not a prototype.

No I don't work for the USTA. My point is that the debate about whether degrees/diplomas/certificates mean anything has raged for centuries, with no resolution. Other than in matters of public safety, there should be a trade-off between requiring some skills and imposing high costs and bureaucracy and stifling creative people. To me, a written exam combined with an actual lesson and play demonstration is a very reasonable compromise for a relatively safe recreational sport like tennis.

[NLBwell]

Originally Posted by sureshs

TW is the real proving ground.

That's because you give advice without actually knowing the person or often not even seeing a video. That makes you a really good teacher.