What can be done to reduce the cheating?

[andfor]

Originally Posted by chalkflewup

Now it all makes sense. UVA has been recruiting cheaters, hence all the recent success!

Along with Lansdorp and the UVA president I believe other factors such as teenage pregnancy, drug use, smoking, rap music, toilet paper rolling neighboors homes, use of false Internet aliases and poor driving habits correlate directly to cheating in tennis.

[tennis5]

Originally Posted by coaching32yrs

.

You don't care what I say, fair enough. You don't care what Landsdorp said in 2008 because it is "dated". Not fair. You don't care what a University president said about cheating by this generation, backed up by facts and statistics. Not fair. Here are Landsdorp's words for those of you who haven't seen them:
"So let me start by making a few comments about a topic no one ever talks about publicly: the enormous amount of cheating now going on in junior tennis. Maybe the most shocking thing is that it’s so prevalent in the younger divisions, the 14 and unders, and even the 12s.

I’m not talking about an occasional bad call here and there. I’m talking about a culture that almost sees cheating as part of the game, almost as a strategy to use at certain times to win matches. Somehow that is now ok."

I agree with Landsdorp. The culture goes beyond occasional bad line calls.
What Azarenka did against Stephens I would define as cheating. Others may not and believe it was within the rules.

The culture of cheating in this country today is abhorrent.
But, don't waste your time arguing with folks on this board.....
Most of them homeschool their kids and are not in a school setting.

When, I google culture, cheating, schools - it is across the country.

NY Times -
http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2...h-them-not-to/

Not all of them — but pretty close. Varying surveys of both private and public high school students showed from 80 to 90 percent admitting to some form of cheating during the school year, from copying another student’s work to cheating on a test. Cheating has been the subject of many a worried headline, while cheating scandals have hit high schools from Stuyvesant in New York to Clear Lake in Houston.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1885597.html
Harvard Cheating Scandal Not Just A Sports Problem: President Drew Faust


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...f430_blog.html

The scandal at Harvard University in which authorities are investigating whether nearly half of a class of 279 students cheated on a take-home final exam raises a number of questions, including this: Does everybody cheat?


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_900635.html
ATLANTA -- Teachers spent nights huddled in a back room, erasing wrong answers on students' test sheets and filling in the correct bubbles. At another school, struggling students were seated next to higher-performing classmates so they could copy answers.

Those and other confessions are contained in a new state report that reveals how far some Atlanta public schools went to raise test scores in the nation's largest-ever cheating scandal. Investigators concluded that nearly half the city's schools allowed the cheating to go unchecked for as long as a decade, beginning in 2001.


http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jul...ating-20120717
Education's cheating epidemic
Many kids today see dishonesty as a crucial part of any path to success.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...s-us/?page=all
Culture of cheating breeding in schools across U.S.


This is ten seconds of a google search..........

Then again, with readers here questioning Robert Landsdorp -
I am sure they would have a problem with the NY Times, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, etc......
Guess that is dated too....

[tennis5]

Originally Posted by andfor

Along with Lansdorp and the UVA president I believe other factors such as teenage pregnancy, drug use, smoking, rap music, toilet paper rolling neighboors homes, use of false Internet aliases and poor driving habits correlate directly to cheating in tennis.

Yeah, the rap music definitely correlates to the kids cursing out the ref or the TD.

[tennis5]

Originally Posted by andfor

I was going to type a long post. Respectfully, this is wasted time and energy and totally counterproductive trying to figure out who's a cheater and who's not.

One bad call give them a second look and ask them if they are sure. Second bad call, tell them next bad one you are getting a line jude. Third bad call get a line judge. This is time tested and works. Players need to read and know the rules. They should also be coached that if anything out of the ordinary breaks up the flow of the match, get a line judge. Plain and simple.

Just play tennis. Leave the excuses behind. You'll be better tennis player in the long-run.

Oh my...... Andfor, I am speechless.

And I will be respectful too

"get a line judge" .......

The problem with the internet is I don't know if you are joking or being ironic or serious.

That is the whole problem.

Many tournaments have one ref for 9 - 10 courts.

So, sure by the 3rd or 4th bad call, you get a ref, and the ref stays for two points, overules one of them, and then goes on to the next court.

Or the ref is eating lunch.

[SoCal10s]

http://www.tennisnews.com/exclusive.php?pID=26799

from Robert Lansdorp ...

[andfor]

Originally Posted by tennis5

Yeah, the rap music definitely correlates to the kids cursing out the ref or the TD.

Typical response although I'm suprised you don't just blame the parents.

BTW. Is cussing out the ref. cheating too?

[chalkflewup]

If a parent or kid tells me they lost because they got cheated, I change the subject with something positive like, "So who do you play next?" I just can't deal with whine & cheese. My kid knows better than to dump that stuff on me. In my opinion, Lansdorp should be teaching his players how to deal with questionable calls and share his ideas with the masses instead of jumping on the hook train. If the faucet is leaking, you don't buy a new house, you fix the leak. We're dealing with a leak here and not a structural problem.

[andfor]

Originally Posted by chalkflewup

If a parent or kid tells me they lost because they got cheated, I change the subject with something positive like, "So who do you play next?" I just can't deal with whine & cheese. My kid knows better than to dump that stuff on me. In my opinion, Lansdorp should be teaching his players how to deal with questionable calls and share his ideas with the masses instead of jumping on the hook train. If the faucet is leaking, you don't buy a new house, you fix the leak. We're dealing with a leak here and not a structural problem.

Can't say it any better. Thanks Chalk!

[coaching32yrs]

Tennis 5 said " The culture of cheating in this country today is abhorrent." So true. Tennis is not the problem, it is only a game.

[SoCal10s]

Originally Posted by chalkflewup

If a parent or kid tells me they lost because they got cheated, I change the subject with something positive like, "So who do you play next?" I just can't deal with whine & cheese. My kid knows better than to dump that stuff on me. In my opinion, Lansdorp should be teaching his players how to deal with questionable calls and share his ideas with the masses instead of jumping on the hook train. If the faucet is leaking, you don't buy a new house, you fix the leak. We're dealing with a leak here and not a structural problem.

great advise to all... thanks...

[Misterbill]

Originally Posted by tennis5

Then again, with readers here questioning Robert Landsdorp -
I am sure they would have a problem with the NY Times, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, etc......
Guess that is dated too....

Often I disagree with the NY Times and Washington Post about their reporting and editorial positions. That means my opinion about cheating in junior tennis (whatever it is, I haven't revealed it here yet) is suspect?

Sounds like the epitome of mid-twentieth century establishment, private school haughtiness

[Chemist]

Back in September, my son lost a match 2-6/3-6 in a final and he blamed the loss to his opponent's 2 bad calls. I showed him the stats that his opponent hit 10 more winners and 20 less unforced errors than him. I told him you lost the match because your opponent played much better than you. Taking out 2 bad calls, your opponent would still hit 6 more winners and 16 less unforced errors and you probably would win one more game. BTW, he learned from that loss and beat the same kid 6-4/7-6 in November and 6-3/6-4 a week ago.

When my son plays a known cheater, I ask him before the match that he should call umpire after 2nd bad call. I also advise him try to aim a foot or so from the line and don't give his opponent many opportunities to make "close calls".

[tball2day]

Originally Posted by andfor

Typical response although I'm suprised you don't just blame the parents.

BTW. Is cussing out the ref. cheating too?

Not cheating, but apparently cursing in English or Spanish will cost you the match...this Perez kid defaulted in FLA after letting a few colorful words fly.

From Zoo Tennis (I condensed link to full below):
At Salvadore Park, where the quarterfinals and semifinals were played today in the boys 18s and boys 14s division, top seed Christian Langmo got the most unusual win of his tennis career in the semifinals, when his opponent, unseeded Alfredo Perez, was defaulted from the match at 3-3 deuce in the third set.

Perez was defaulted for his third audible obscenity in the match, the first two coming in the last game of the first set when he was serving trailing 3-5.....At 3-5, 0-30, after a Langmo winner, Perez yelled out "he's playing out of his f***ing mind" and a roving umpire gave him a point penalty..........

The third set continued with both boys playing well and holding serve until, at 3-3, Perez let a 40-15 lead get away. When he failed to win a third game point, he shouted that he was playing like the Spanish word for excrement. The assistant referee checked with her Spanish-speaking colleague to make sure she had heard it correctly, and called both boys to the net, where she awarded the match to Langmo. Langmo shook Perez's hand, then Perez tossed his racquet in the direction of his bag and after a few seconds sat down and loudly said the same word again. Because he was defaulted for misconduct, the 15-year-old from Coral Gables was not allowed to play his doubles match later in the day.

Whole story is here:
http://tenniskalamazoo.blogspot.com/

[andfor]

Originally Posted by tball2day

Not cheating, but apparently cursing in English or Spanish will cost you the match...this Perez kid defaulted in FLA after letting a few colorful words fly.

From Zoo Tennis (I condensed link to full below):
At Salvadore Park, where the quarterfinals and semifinals were played today in the boys 18s and boys 14s division, top seed Christian Langmo got the most unusual win of his tennis career in the semifinals, when his opponent, unseeded Alfredo Perez, was defaulted from the match at 3-3 deuce in the third set.

Perez was defaulted for his third audible obscenity in the match, the first two coming in the last game of the first set when he was serving trailing 3-5.....At 3-5, 0-30, after a Langmo winner, Perez yelled out "he's playing out of his f***ing mind" and a roving umpire gave him a point penalty..........

The third set continued with both boys playing well and holding serve until, at 3-3, Perez let a 40-15 lead get away. When he failed to win a third game point, he shouted that he was playing like the Spanish word for excrement. The assistant referee checked with her Spanish-speaking colleague to make sure she had heard it correctly, and called both boys to the net, where she awarded the match to Langmo. Langmo shook Perez's hand, then Perez tossed his racquet in the direction of his bag and after a few seconds sat down and loudly said the same word again. Because he was defaulted for misconduct, the 15-year-old from Coral Gables was not allowed to play his doubles match later in the day.

Whole story is here:
http://tenniskalamazoo.blogspot.com/

Cheating and breaking The Code are two distinctly different things. I think you know that, but for some reason the two regarding suspension and how to handle cheating are being blurred together by a few here.

Regarding your example, did Perez chalk his cussing up to listening to rap music? Doubt it. Did kids ever get defaulted for cussing pre-rap music, of course.

[tball2day]

I saw the mention of cursing earlier so stuck it here. I thought the story was hilarious, especially the conferring with spanish speaking colleague. It gave me a morning chuckle. I can totally see this playing out in my mind...but I am not offended by cursing at all, just don't care about it on or off the court.

[ga tennis]

Cheating happens on every level. God only knows how many pro men are doping(ATP is full of Armstrongs) College coaches break the rules. College players make terrible calls(I watched Georgia play Ohio State last year and the calls were ridiculous) Cheating is gonna happen!!! One thing i tell my daughter is you never lose a match because the other girl cheated and NEVER use that excuse just bring your targets in.

[TCF]

Originally Posted by ga tennis

Cheating happens on every level. God only knows how many pro men are doping(ATP is full of Armstrongs) College coaches break the rules. College players make terrible calls(I watched Georgia play Ohio State last year and the calls were ridiculous) Cheating is gonna happen!!! One thing i tell my daughter is you never lose a match because the other girl cheated and NEVER use that excuse just bring your targets in.

Same here GA. We played a tournament last weekend. My girl lost in the finals to a 12 year old who was hooking many close calls. She was also as good a pusher as you will ever see. Never seen a kid who can block ball after ball back, match after match, and never take a full swing at the ball!

Afterwards, no excuses.....we just go back to work learning how to deal with kids who cheat on the line calls and deal with pushers. In the end the experience will be helpful.

[coaching32yrs]

Ga: I saw the same thing in an Ivy match in the fall. Couldn't believe it. One coach went bonkers, screaming at other coach during match. Match was officiated, but player hooked on sideline opposite referee, so couldn't overrule. Ivy League smart.

[barringer97]

When in doubt, call it out.

[Chemist]

Originally Posted by ga tennis

Cheating happens on every level. God only knows how many pro men are doping(ATP is full of Armstrongs) College coaches break the rules. College players make terrible calls(I watched Georgia play Ohio State last year and the calls were ridiculous) Cheating is gonna happen!!! One thing i tell my daughter is you never lose a match because the other girl cheated and NEVER use that excuse just bring your targets in.

Originally Posted by TCF

Same here GA. We played a tournament last weekend. My girl lost in the finals to a 12 year old who was hooking many close calls. She was also as good a pusher as you will ever see. Never seen a kid who can block ball after ball back, match after match, and never take a full swing at the ball!

Afterwards, no excuses.....we just go back to work learning how to deal with kids who cheat on the line calls and deal with pushers. In the end the experience will be helpful.

GA and TCF - This is exactly what parents or coaches should tell our kids! Cheaters wanted to use bad calls as an easy way to disrupt your rhythm, make you lose focus and get upset, and forget how to think and how to play your best.... Screaming, cursing, name calling, faking injury, taking long bathroom break, delaying game etc are the same tactics that cheaters use to get into your mind. So learning how to deal with cheaters is perhaps the most important aspect of improving mental toughness.