Tension: crosses vs mains

[levy1]

Originally Posted by drakulie

monkey, how are you?? I was going to call you but haven't had a chance. Priority One contacted me to ask if I would join them at Cincy this year. I'm psyched!!!

Also, don't forget about the miami challenger next year. I already have your space booked. You have to join me. We are going to have FUN, fun fun!!!

Will you be accessible in Cincy where we can stop in and say HI!

[schap02]

Originally Posted by drakulie

What are you trying to hope to achieve by changing tensions in mains vs crosses?

Poly is going to lose tension much faster than a multi anyway, so why drop the reference tension?

That's usually my philosophy....
Then - when stringing full poly jobs I usually drop crosses a pound or two depending on what frame....opens up the sweet-spot...IMO

[ginoC]

New to the board, but have strung for near 20 years. I've thought about this subject many times, and believe that Glen K approach is the most practical, i.e. measure your frame before and after stringing to see what's really going on. For me, the intent of using different tensions should be to ensure that the mains and crosses work uniformly. Noting that typically the Xs are 20-25% shorter than the Ms, it would seem that reducing the tension on the Xs makes sense. However, there's the matter of tension losses at the crossovers and at the frame. How much is anybody's guess, and is why I endorsed Glen K's approach. Also keep in mind that as you string the Xs, you're actually increasing the tension of the mains as the mains being forced to go over and under the Xs. There used to be a stringing machine called TruTension whose design intent was to reduce/minimize all aforementioned tension losses. It specified a significant tension reduction when doing the Xs to account for the shorter length. I'm not a big fan of hybrid stringing unless you string your racket after every match like the top pros do, since, as mentioned previously by others, the tension loss of the Ms and Xs will be uneven-- what is perfect when freshly strung will become less and less perfect the longer you play with it. Recommend most regular players stay with a full bed of whatever.

[stoneage]

With different strings in the mains and crosses the tension can be used to emphasize one or the other. With a gut/poly combination increasing the gut tension and decreasing the poly will make the gut carry more of the load and will probably give more "gut feeling"

Also remember that the string bed is deformed quite a lot during impact and the tension situation will be different from the undeformed racquet. The crosses will increase their tension a little more since they are shorter. A poly will increase its tension much more than gut since it is stiffer.

Another effect to consider is that the strings also affect the racquet frame stiffness. The mains decrease the stiffness and the crosses increase it (to a lesser extent). The combined effect is that the strings makes the racquet softer. So increasing the tensions in the mains and lower the crosses will increase this effect. How large this effect is depends on the stiffness of the frame.

/Sten

__________________________________________________ _________
racquetTune, stringBed and swingTool racquet apps for the iPhone/iPad.

[Power Player]

What is your suggestion for Yonex sticks in which they suggest stringing the crosses 5% lower?

I use the courier setup : syn gut mains/poly crosses and like my tension at 55.

[lynnbart]

I've been stringing the poly about 4 lbs lower than the synthetic no matter whether they are in the mains or the crosses.

Have I been doing that wrong ?

My son's stick usually gets 54 lb poly mains with 58 lb syn/gut crosses. My stick will get 54 lb syn/gut mains with 50 lb poly crosses.

[drakulie]

Originally Posted by Clintspin

Are you suggesting that a poly main/cross and a multi or nylon main/cross hybrid should have the same tension. If so that goes against everything that we hear from the experts and the string manufactures.

Who are these "experts", and where is their concrete evidence that doing this has a benefit, if any? I will remind you that the jury is still out.

One thing we know for certain is that crosses are shorter than mains, therefore, stringing them lower, theoretically, would make the string bed more proportional, and cause less frame distortion. Doing it the other way around will make the racquet longer. So yeah, I guess if you wanted to buy an extended racquet, and mistakenly purchased the 27 inch, this would be the way to go.

I don't know of any concrete testing that proves one will get more spin, power, control, or go from say a 3.0 to a 4.0 as hinted by the JET method by stringing mains and/or crosses at differing tensions. At the end of the day, every stringing method will cause tension loss and the strings will move around to orient themselves accordingly, so whatever "advantage" you think you are getting will disappear very quickly. In many cases probably before you even get to play with the frame.

Regarding what is recommended by manufacturers,,,,,,, they quickly learned that players complained of the strings feeling too stiff, so naturally, wanting to make money and sell more strings, they put a sticker on the strings saying, "string 10 or 15% looser".

At the end of the day, I haven't in this thread suggested do one or the other. I simply asked the OP why he was doing this and what he was hoping to achieve, because by and large, most people don't have a clue when being asked that question. They mostly answer, "that is what I was told to do".

Originally Posted by jman32

Hi Drak,

i had a similar question. my preferred setup is Alu power @ 47 pounds CP full bed in a prestige pro prostock: 12.4oz 355 SW. i hit hard (for a 4.0/4.5) with a good amount of spin (mostly top, some BH slice) and will flatten out depending on the ball. i am a winner from any spot kind of guy (for which i am trying to control) directional and depth control is very important to me on groundies as well as flat serves.

i am considering putting syn gut in crosses to:
to soften the feel
be easier on my arm
improving amount of time i can play with a string job
save some money

will hybriding achieve my goals? will a hybrid lose the direction and depth control mentioned above?

I am am not sure what a good tension would be on the crosses. conventional wisdom says 45-47 pounds, will this give too much power. i was thinking to go higher in the crosses, say in the 50-52 pound range?

what tension would you suggest in this scenario?

i have OG sheep, do you have a suggested syn gut for this situation? pref not too expensive

thanks for your help and experience.

jman, my advice would be to start at the same tension (mains/crosses), especially since you are adding a new variable to the equation (the gosen crosses).

If you beging changing too many things at once, you'll begin chasing your tail. For example, lets say you put the gosen in the crosses and change the reference tension and hate it, you might not be sure if you hated the change in tension or the gosen.

By the way, gosen is a very underrated string. It is very solid, and does everything well. heck, Courier is still using it in the mains.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by levy1

Will you be accessible in Cincy where we can stop in and say HI!

I believe one would need credentials to get to the area I will be in. Additionally, when stringing at these events, it is hard to get away,,,,,, one could spend the first 5-6 days stringing 16 hours straight.

[stoneage]

Originally Posted by drakulie

Who are these "experts", and where is their concrete evidence that doing this has a benefit, if any? I will remind you that the jury is still out.

I agree completely! There are a lot of "experts" who base their opinions on hearsay and wishful thinking. And the less some people know the more inclined they are make a dogmatic statement

If you use the same strings and increase the tension in one direction and decrease it the same amount in the other, I would say that you will get very little effect since the stiffness of the string bed is fairly constant. If you use different strings you will have some effect. But it will depend on several of factors and you can't say that one is right and the other is wrong.

I ran a simulation in StringBed with one racquet strung with polys at 24 kg in both directions and one that had gut at 26 kg in the mains and polys with 24 kg in the crosses. The result was that the all poly was 5% softer for small deformations (very light hits) and 5% stiffer for heavy loads (world class drives). Just as an indication that there is no simple truth.

So the only way to know for sure what you prefer is to string two racquets and play with them, preferable with knowing which is which.

/Sten

_________________________________________________
racquetTune, stringBed and swingTool racquet apps for the iPhone/iPad.

[sundaypunch]

Originally Posted by drakulie

....Poly is going to lose tension much faster than a multi anyway, so why drop the reference tension?

Originally Posted by nglaser

.....Are yo saying you string a poly at the same tension you string a multi?? If so you are in the minority.

Originally Posted by drakulie

I strung over 5000 frames last year, and have already strung over 3000 this year, which includes stringing at pro tournaments. I sincerely doubt I'm in the minority.....

Crickets chirping.....

[TennisCJC]

I always string the soft string +3-5 lbs in soft string/poly hybrids. The luxilon string site recommended this and I have seen it recommended on other stringing sites by "experts". The idea is to compensate for the extra stiffness and lower resiliency of the poly.

Poly mains at 50 with multi cross at 53-55 is an example; poly will not stretch much and higher tension on multi brings it inline with poly resilency.

Gut mains at 55, with poly cross at 50-52 is another example. Stiff poly cross at lower tension plays comparable to soft main. Also, allows gut to slide and return.

I have been using this approach for 6 years for my rackets and my friends.

In same type string setup , I would drop cross tension 2 lbs or use same reference. Longer mains a bit tighter, lower crosses to allow mains to slide.

You are not doing it "wrong" with this hybrid approach.

[lynnbart]

TennisCJC's post sums up what I've been trying to do since I started experienting with hybrids. 4lbs difference is the most I've split.

[Litespeeds]

Drak,
What would you recommend for a 98 sq.in. racquet if:

I normally string with Solinco Revolution 1.20 on a full stringbed at 48 pounds Mains and Crosses on a Babolat Stat 5 but want to go with a poly/gut hybrid? Would you just string the racquet at 48 pounds poly main and 48 pounds natural gut crosses?

Like you said, I don't know why but I always thought that you are suppose to string the gut 3-4 pounds tighter than the poly. I was thinking of stringing it 48 pounds main with poly and 52 pounds crosses with natural gut. Would you advise against this?

[parasailing]

I say it depends on what copoly you put in the cross. I usually go with a 5 or 6lbs difference because natural gut is way too powerful at lower tension range so I have mine strung at 58lbs for natural gut mains and 52 or 53lbs for copoly cross.

If it's Luxilon string, I go even further down to 49lbs as it is much stiffer than the newer generation of copolys.

[Centerforward71]

Originally Posted by parasailing

I say it depends on what copoly you put in the cross. I usually go with a 5 or 6lbs difference because natural gut is way too powerful at lower tension range so I have mine strung at 58lbs for natural gut mains and 52 or 53lbs for copoly cross.

If it's Luxilon string, I go even further down to 49lbs as it is much stiffer than the newer generation of copolys.

Other than hybriding with gut where I agree with a tighter tension on the gut when set as mains that 2 or 3 pound diff with poly syn gut multi hybrid combos is nothing short of mental floss. Tension loss will exist anyways and what you are looking for is a stringed reference at the end that you like. And if your string that loses tension faster starts lower significantly then you get into the realm of changing the characteristics of the racquet and possibly it's true natural engineered shape. Any REC player should not waste time doing this with a racquet that will be used for more than one or two hours of play. Stay with one tension and adjust up or down to find your overall reference.

[Wodz]

I love it here.. you guys are all so knowledgeable and fun to read. I have learned so much just by reading various threads