If you blame Azarenka, You need to blame Rafa as well

[TMF]

Originally Posted by veroniquem

Everybody takes MTOs. Blame Li Na. She took 2 MTOs, one of them in the middle of Aza's service game. It takes some nerves to complain about Vika after that.

You're completely blind if you believe Li's MTO was a fake. She hit her head on court !!!!!!!!

How do you like it if you fall and hit your head on the cement?
Have some consciousness.

[DropShotArtist]

Alas there will always be cheaters in the game like Nadal and now the newly anointed cheat queen Azarenka. But what you gonna do? Just have to live with it, Fed does. And MTOs are probably not even Nadal's biggest 3-letter acronym infraction.

[Vanhool]

Originally Posted by TMF

You're completely blind if you believe Li's MTO was a fake. She hit her head on court !!!!!!!!

How do you like it if you fall and hit your head on the cement?
Have some consciousness.

Pretty sure this person was being sarcastic. He or she was just exposing how hateful some of the Vika-bashers are by using their own logic. Obviously Na was injured, but if you have an agenda you can twist facts to justify any opinion. The doctor confirmed Vika's injuries, and he was actually there. People should just get over it.

[Tennis_Hands]

Originally Posted by Vanhool

Pretty sure this person was being sarcastic. .

Originally Posted by veroniquem

If the issue is that it throws the opponent off rhythm, it will do so whether you estimate it's legit or not and it will definitely be worse in the middle of a game

Doesn't sound sarcastic to me.

At all.

[veroniquem]

Originally Posted by TMF

You're completely blind if you believe Li's MTO was a fake. She hit her head on court !!!!!!!!

How do you like it if you fall and hit your head on the cement?
Have some consciousness.

She didn't seem to suffer either. She was laughing her head off when they did the finger test on her eyes (I don't blame her, most hilarious thing I've ever seen during a match). I'm glad she was fine of course, I wouldn't wish anyone any harm but that is not my point at all. My point was that the reason for the MTO is completely irrelevant in terms of hurting the opponent's rhythm and the worst moment for the MTO to happen is in the middle of the opponent's service game, which is what happened in the final. Big deal. Players have to handle that kind of stuff, it's their job. There is never a case where you could blame the final result on it. The rule says you're allowed an MTO. The rule doesn't say you have to PROVE the MTO was absolutely necessary. And that is not something up to the spectators to determine. If a player went so far as to take an MTO for no reason whatsoever, then it would be up to the doctor, trainer, ump or whatever other official to call it out. It is certainly not up to the spectator to pass that judgement. And regardless of the degree to which the MTO was vital (which is impossible for us to determine), the impact on the opponent is gonna be the same, so the opponent had better be able to cope with it, regardless of the justification for it.
My other point was that they filmed her conversation with the trainer before the time out, so when she said she couldn't breathe, she wasn't making up something after the fact because I can see with my own eyes that's what she told the trainer during the match. To what extent the breathing issues were a serious problem? How should I know? I'm not a doctor/trainer and neither are you but if the AO doctor diagnoses that there is an issue with a rib, I fail to see what kind of insider info a message board poster has to categorically counter that statement. Could the 105 degree temperature have contributed to breathing problems? Maybe not, maybe it was just nerves but nobody can say it would be impossible either.
In a court of law, you do not sentence a person on presumptions. (ever heard the expression "beyond a reasonable doubt"?) And yet that's what you're doing with Azarenka, based on irrational hatred and not much else.

[CCNM]

Originally Posted by Towser83

He wrote the book "cheating with mto's for dummies"

Ha ha ha ha ha!!!! Good one!!! I'm sure the locker rooms at big-name tennis tournaments are like the ones for basketball & hockey-with weights, exercise machines, heat and ice packs, etc. And I would think that players would use them if necessary to treat themselves so they wouldn't have to stop in the middle of a match. (Hope that makes sense)

[Tennis_Hands]

Originally Posted by veroniquem

She didn't seem to suffer either. She was laughing her head off when they did the finger test on her eyes (I don't blame her, most hilarious thing I've ever seen during a match). I'm glad she was fine of course, I wouldn't wish anyone any harm but that is not my point at all. My point was that the reason for the MTO is completely irrelevant in terms of hurting the opponent's rhythm and the worst moment for the MTO to happen is in the middle of the opponent's service game, which is what happened in the final. Big deal. Players have to handle that kind of stuff, it's their job. There is never a case where you could blame the final result on it. The rule says you're allowed an MTO. The rule doesn't say you have to PROVE the MTO was absolutely necessary. And that is not something up to the spectators to determine. If a player went so far as to take an MTO for no reason whatsoever, then it would be up to the doctor, trainer, ump or whatever other official to call it out. It is certainly not up to the spectator to pass that judgement. And regardless of the degree to which the MTO was vital (which is impossible for us to determine), the impact on the opponent is gonna be the same, so the opponent had better be able to cope with it, regardless of the justification for it.
My other point was that they filmed her conversation with the trainer before the time out, so when she said she couldn't breathe, she wasn't making up something after the fact because I can see with my own eyes that's what she told the trainer during the match. To what extent the breathing issues were a serious problem? How should I know? I'm not a doctor/trainer and neither are you but if the AO doctor diagnoses that there is an issue with a rib, I fail to see what kind of insider info a message board poster has to categorically counter that statement. Could the 105 degree temperature have contributed to breathing problems? Maybe not, maybe it was just nerves but nobody can say it would be impossible either.
In a court of law, you do not sentence a person on presumptions. (ever heard the expression "beyond a reasonable doubt"?) And yet that's what you're doing with Azarenka, based on irrational hatred and not much else.

Conditioning problems are not an injury. Concussion is.

Now, stop that nonsense.

[edmondsm]

Originally Posted by Crisstti

Lol, yet another ridiculous thread from you. You can't know if any MTO from Nadal has been illegitimate. You just like to think so.

So are we just supposed to ignore all the evidence? Multiple players have spoken up about Nadal taking dubious MTOs. A simple google search will reveal this to you.

[OddJack]

To blame Rafa you dont need to have a reference other than common sense.

[TTMR]

Good to know Federer's 2012 Wimbledon now comes with an asterik too, given he took an MTO against Malisse.

Right?

[mariecon]

Originally Posted by TTMR

Good to know Federer's 2012 Wimbledon now comes with an asterik too, given he took an MTO against Malisse.

Right?

So now MTOs are illegal? Says who? You?

[Tennis_Hands]

Originally Posted by TTMR

Good to know Federer's 2012 Wimbledon now comes with an asterik too, given he took an MTO against Malisse.

Right?

Ummmm.

What?

[Shangri La]

Originally Posted by veroniquem

Everybody takes MTOs. Blame Li Na. She took 2 MTOs, one of them in the middle of Aza's service game. It takes some nerves to complain about Vika after that.

This really shows the poster's credibility. No need to respond to this guy.

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Originally Posted by Shangri La

This really shows the poster's credibility. No need to respond to this guy.

You can say the same about pretty much half of the posters in this section. There's a lot of stupid here, and this thread (and veroniquem). Posting about something based on personal preferences while ignoring the facts. Let me steer you in the right direction:

I'm going to make a claim now, and I will also back it up with the evidence.

Claim: Veroniquem should be ignored.
Evidence: This entire thread.

[Vrad]

Originally Posted by PhrygianDominant

Except when the person completely admits to taking and MTO because she was choking in an on court interview, then changes the story afterwards in her presser.

At least Nadal remembers the lies he tells, and when to tell them.

This was a complete misinterpretation of her post match interview (admittedly, I misinterpreted it in the beginning too). When she said choking, she meant choking literally, as in not being able to breathe, while everyone assumed she was talking about choking the game.

[Vrad]

Originally Posted by veroniquem

She didn't seem to suffer either. She was laughing her head off when they did the finger test on her eyes (I don't blame her, most hilarious thing I've ever seen during a match).

It doesn't matter if she got a concussion or not. The bottom line is that it would be border line insane for her (or anyone else in her position) to NOT take an MTO to determine whether she had a concussion or not. Fortunately she didn't. But we only knew that thanks to the MTO. If she hadn't taken an MTO to find out, and had played through a concussion, the consequences could have been terrible.

[veroniquem]

Sure, I'm not the one claiming there is anything wrong with MTOs. Quite the opposite. I'm saying players have to take them in stride (both the player getting the MTO and the opponent) and an MTO is never an excuse for losing the match. The reason for the MTO is completely irrelevant to that simple fact.

[mariecon]

Originally Posted by Vrad

This was a complete misinterpretation of her post match interview (admittedly, I misinterpreted it in the beginning too). When she said choking, she meant choking literally, as in not being able to breathe, while everyone assumed she was talking about choking the game.

no I'm pretty sure she meant choking away the game. She called it "almost the choke of the year". That's not talking about literally choking.



This is poor quality but you can watch the interview here.

http://youtu.be/eUbWztL4ozQ

[bkpr]

Originally Posted by veroniquem

My point was that the reason for the MTO is completely irrelevant in terms of hurting the opponent's rhythm and the worst moment for the MTO to happen is in the middle of the opponent's service game, which is what happened in the final. Big deal. Players have to handle that kind of stuff, it's their job. There is never a case where you could blame the final result on it. The rule says you're allowed an MTO. The rule doesn't say you have to PROVE the MTO was absolutely necessary. And that is not something up to the spectators to determine. If a player went so far as to take an MTO for no reason whatsoever, then it would be up to the doctor, trainer, ump or whatever other official to call it out.

Maybe this is the point? What official would call out a phoney MTO? can you imagine the backlash by the player, the coach, the managers, sponsors etc? Especially if it had been the 'first' MTO to be denied or somehow punished. The forums would simply shift the argument to player A's injury was worse/better/more deserving than player B's.

Basically I see it like this: the rule is there to be used and abused. I don't agree with players abusing it, because I know the real reason it's there, but it's near impossible to police. The time-between-points rule has a black/white determining factor in the timer, an MTO, not so much. The opponent must simply deal with it, and rise above it.

[single_handed_champion]

Originally Posted by veroniquem

Azarenka didn't fall.

No, she was overwhelmed with tension against a teenager who was not any reasonable threat to her. This as the no. 1 (ranked) player in the world, panicking because she knew this was a godsend to her that Serena was out.

And she admitted it was the choke of the year LOL.