Whats your top 10 of all time right now?

[pc1]

Originally Posted by Phoenix1983

I didn't realise this thread was ranking the top ten composers of all time

Why not? The thread did say top 10, it didn't specifically say tennis.

[kiki]

Originally Posted by pc1

Kiki,

Since you mentioned Trabert, I was trying to find a relatively current equivalent in style and in relative strength to Trabert. Trabert was a terrific baseliner with an excellent return as well as a very good serve and volleyer. He was not the most agile however. I thought of a couple, one is Agassi for the return and groundies. Agassi wasn't exactly fast either. The second is Boris Becker. The problem I have with Becker is that Becker wasn't that good on clay, having never won a clay tournament. Becker had a better serve imo but Trabert's was pretty goo.

My questions are this, how strong would you say Trabert was at his peak? I think he was excellent. Second, who do you think is a relatively close equivalent to Trabert in the last twenty to thirty years?

I thought about Boris, too.But Kodes is the answer.Good serve and volley, steady and deep groundies, Kodes was a bit less percutant but had better footwork.

Both great on natural surfaces, grass and clay but not as strong indoors.

Kodes is the better choice.

[kiki]

Originally Posted by pc1

Becker is the closest comp to Trabert I know of. Thanks to both of you for your replies.

Urban I've often thought Korda and Leconte were similar to many ways to Laver. Laver of course was more consistent than either but all of them could hit streaks where they seemed unstoppable.

I would agree with both of you that Hoad was similar to Becker but as Dan wrote, had many more weapons.

John Mc Enroe was compared to Laver.But I think they were not the same breed.

[kiki]

Originally Posted by forzamilan90

Lets bring in some 70´s R&R ?

[pc1]

Originally Posted by kiki

John Mc Enroe was compared to Laver.But I think they were not the same breed.

Agreed. Some similarities in that both are lefty serve and volleyers but really different styles of play.

[pc1]

Originally Posted by kiki

I thought about Boris, too.But Kodes is the answer.Good serve and volley, steady and deep groundies, Kodes was a bit less percutant but had better footwork.

Both great on natural surfaces, grass and clay but not as strong indoors.

Kodes is the better choice.

Thanks Kiki.

[kiki]

Originally Posted by pc1

Thanks Kiki.

Who´d be the modern Frank Sedgman? maybe John Newcombe? both had tremendous FH volleys and great net coverage.

[BobbyOne]

Originally Posted by hoodjem

Wrong again, ole bean.

Mozart died 5 December 1791. Haydn went to London in January of 1791, whereupon he started writing the first of his culminating London Symphonies (nos. 93-104). The earliest of which (numbered incorrectly as no. 96) premiered in London in March 1791.

Mozart's Symphony no. 25 in G minor, K. 183 is fairly pleasant and genial, but if you want to hear "feelings" and emotions from an early Classical period work try Haydn's symphonies no. 43 Mercury or no. 44 Trauersymphonie written in 1772 one year before Mozart's "genial" symphony no. 25.

The facts deny many of your statements, and the chronology contradicts many of your unfounded assertions.

hoodjem, You should write about tennis history. It's better for your reputation.

Okay, I concede that Haydn did not write ALL of his late works after Mozart's death. But VIRTUALLY ALL of them. And ALL of them were OF COURSE heavily influenced by Mozart's masterpieces.

Imagine Haydn would have died in, say, 1780 and therefore would not have known Mozart's great works. How poor would his oeuvre be...

Most of all: I have heard hundreds of Haydn's works but I was never thrilled by any of them, did not get tears or a shower on my neck or back.

Hear Mozart 488, second movement: There you would learn what emotion and greatness is. But it seems senseless to ask you because you called Mozart's
sadest works (including even the Requiem!!!) sweet or similary.....

[BobbyOne]

Originally Posted by hoodjem

Wrong again, ole bean.

Mozart died 5 December 1791. Haydn went to London in January of 1791, whereupon he started writing the first of his culminating London Symphonies (nos. 93-104). The earliest of which (numbered incorrectly as no. 96) premiered in London in March 1791.

Mozart's Symphony no. 25 in G minor, K. 183 is fairly pleasant and genial, but if you want to hear "feelings" and emotions from an early Classical period work try Haydn's symphonies no. 43 Mercury or no. 44 Trauersymphonie written in 1772 one year before Mozart's "genial" symphony no. 25.

The facts deny many of your statements, and the chronology contradicts many of your unfounded assertions.

hoodjem, I forgot to write hat you are casual: First you write Mozart 25 is genial and second you write it's "genial". You just want to blame me and troll me. But you use only nasty words. You have NOT disproved my chronology with that little exception regarding 1791 which does not contradict my thesis that old Haydn was influenced by top Mozart. So be fair!

[forzamilan90]

Originally Posted by kiki

Lets bring in some 70´s R&R ?

something like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY3vgBzgYn4

[pc1]

Originally Posted by kiki

Who´d be the modern Frank Sedgman? maybe John Newcombe? both had tremendous FH volleys and great net coverage.

Sedgman was quicker than Newcombe. Sedgman had a superior volley which some think is the best of all time. Newcombe had the superior forehand and serve.

I think the closest to Sedgman would be Edberg. Serves around the same level, both have been called the greatest volleyers ever. Both are great movers. Difference is that Edberg had a great backhand and Sedgman only a good one. I think Sedgman had the superior forehand.

[kiki]

Originally Posted by forzamilan90

something like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY3vgBzgYn4

something like that...
http://youtu.be/6tlSx0jkuLM

[kiki]

Originally Posted by pc1

Sedgman was quicker than Newcombe. Sedgman had a superior volley which some think is the best of all time. Newcombe had the superior forehand and serve.

I think the closest to Sedgman would be Edberg. Serves around the same level, both have been called the greatest volleyers ever. Both are great movers. Difference is that Edberg had a great backhand and Sedgman only a good one. I think Sedgman had the superior forehand.

Maybe, thanks

[pc1]

Originally Posted by kiki

Maybe, thanks

Incidentally just because many think Sedgman was the greatest volleyer doesn't mean Newcombe wasn't a super volleyer. I think he was.

[kiki]

Originally Posted by pc1

Incidentally just because many think Sedgman was the greatest volleyer doesn't mean Newcombe wasn't a super volleyer. I think he was.

Since I think you are keen on both, Newk and Orantes...did they ever meet other than DC?

[forzamilan90]

Originally Posted by kiki

something like that...
http://youtu.be/6tlSx0jkuLM

can never go wrong with the Mighty Zep
This is my fave from them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZiN_NqT-Us

[hoodjem]

Originally Posted by Phoenix1983

I didn't realise this thread was ranking the top ten composers of all time

Where have you been?

3. Mozart
. . .
9. Haydn

[hoodjem]

Originally Posted by BobbyOne

hoodjem, I forgot to write hat you are casual: First you write Mozart 25 is genial and second you write it's "genial". You just want to blame me and troll me. But you use only nasty words. You have NOT disproved my chronology with that little exception regarding 1791 which does not contradict my thesis that old Haydn was influenced by top Mozart. So be fair!

If quoting is trolling, then I am guilty.

I submit that to quote is not to blame, but simply to assign responsibility or authorship where it is proper.

If quoting your saying of "genial" is nasty, then I don't understand the meaning of nasty. One must take responsibility for one's words.

Am I "casual" or "nasty"? The difference is huge, in my opinion.

[Dan Lobb]

Originally Posted by BobbyOne

hoodjem, I forgot to write hat you are casual: First you write Mozart 25 is genial and second you write it's "genial". You just want to blame me and troll me. But you use only nasty words. You have NOT disproved my chronology with that little exception regarding 1791 which does not contradict my thesis that old Haydn was influenced by top Mozart. So be fair!

Most great composers influence each other, just as great tennis players learn from each other.
Mozart certainly learned much from Haydn, just as Hoad learned much from Kramer.
Mozart was profoundly influenced by Bach beginning in 1781 or thereabout, as evidenced by his own compositions, and borrowed a theme from Handel's Messiah (which Mozart orchestrated) for his Requiem.
Nothing wrong with this.

[BobbyOne]

Originally Posted by hoodjem

If quoting is trolling, then I am guilty.

I submit that to quote is not to blame, but simply to assign responsibility or authorship where it is proper.

If quoting your saying of "genial" is nasty, then I don't understand the meaning of nasty. One must take responsibility for one's words.

Am I "casual" or "nasty"? The difference is huge, in my opinion.

hoodjem, Let's stop our discussion about music. A last statement: I critisized that you once wrote GENIAL symphony and once "GENIAL" symphony, the second version probably to belittle Mozart 25.