Post shoe measurements. Find out how low to the ground shoes are

[raphMODE]

Any measurement of the Vapor 9 ?
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[newyorkstadium]

The vapor 9 is arriving in the post. I will measure the barricade team 2 and 2k12 properly tomorrow. I'm not sure whether to continue with this thread for a few reasons:

1) I don't want to impact the sales of shoes.

2) Shoes are discontinued all the time. Who's to say the next version of a shoe wont have a totally different heel height.

What do people think?

[Povl Carstensen]

Originally Posted by newyorkstadium

1) I don't want to impact the sales of shoes.

Why not? You are just sharing information.

[WildVolley]

Originally Posted by newyorkstadium

The vapor 9 is arriving in the post. I will measure the CB4.3, barricade team 2 and 2k12 properly tomorrow. I'm not sure whether to continue with this thread for a few reasons:

1) I don't want to impact the sales of shoes.

2) Shoes are discontinued all the time. Who's to say the next version of a shoe wont have a totally different heel height.

What do people think?

Who cares about impacting the sales of shoes? The idea is to give people information about how low to the ground various shoes actually are. Lower heels are, other things equal, more stable.

As long as we list the shoe model we aren't misleading people. Actually, it would be nice if we could get TW to do these measurements for us. They post the weight of the shoe in a size 10.5 or something, why not also post the heel height using calipers?

[banter]

Originally Posted by WildVolley

Who cares about impacting the sales of shoes? The idea is to give people information about how low to the ground various shoes actually are. Lower heels are, other things equal, more stable.

As long as we list the shoe model we aren't misleading people. Actually, it would be nice if we could get TW to do these measurements for us. They post the weight of the shoe in a size 10.5 or something, why not also post the heel height using calipers?

I wish, but TW has already decided not to measure the heel height.

[newyorkstadium]

This thread will never be influential enough to impact sales anyway. It could impact TW sales. I assumed this was why they didn't want to measure heel drop. That and the minor time-consuming element.

I will continue taking measurements.

[newyorkstadium]

Wildvolley, to measure using calipers, I think you have to cut the fabric off. This would be a waste of money from TW's perspective.

[banter]

I'm sure there's a way so that fabric doesn't have to cut: rounded calipers

I too, when I pass through more shoes, will continue to measure.

[newyorkstadium]

Thanks banter. I think I'll buy a pair of them and try them out. I think their called outside spring calipers.

[WildVolley]

Originally Posted by newyorkstadium

This thread will never be influential enough to impact sales anyway. It could impact TW sales. I assumed this was why they didn't want to measure heel drop. That and the minor time-consuming element.

I will continue taking measurements.

Thanks for the link to TW's response.

I think the evidence is more that this won't influence sales much at all and would be a hassle for TW, so why do it? If the discussions on this forum are any indication, most people are happy with major brand tennis shoes and seem to be primarily concerned about aesthetics. Collectors who don't actually wear the shoes to play tennis seem to make a sizable fraction of purchasers, at least if we are talking Nike and Adidas.

My understanding is that the minimalist crowd in running has caused serious runners to start to notice heel stack height and drop measurements. The average person who wears running shoes probably doesn't even run, but the serious runners seem to be concerned about performance.

The whole minimalist shoe movement is causing people to reassess the belief that Nike has pushed since the 1970s that more padding and cushioning is better. At the extreme end are sprint spikes which are purposefully made to just go fast in a straight line. They tend to have almost no padding and the toe is sometimes higher than the heel because of the spike plate. Raising the heel is actually less athletic than a flat shoe, but provides an advantage in tennis in terms of cushioning if you hard plant the heel into a shot.

[WildVolley]

Originally Posted by newyorkstadium

Thanks banter. I think I'll buy a pair of them and try them out. I think their called outside spring calipers.

That's what I was thinking. Those big bent end calipers that would easily extend into the shoe without having to cut anything. I'm fairly certain that is what they measure running shoes with.

In some cases, I think that shoe manufacturers are now providing the information themselves. I know Altra and Newton brag about having zero drop shoes and even big name makers like New Balance are turning out running shoes with very minimal drop or zero drop.

[newyorkstadium]

I'll try outside calipers.

Running-warehouse cut the shoe to do it - http://www.runningwarehouse.com/Lear...l?video=FOOT01

[banter]

RW doesn't actually cut the shoe in half; they were just showing for demonstrative purposes.

[WildVolley]

Originally Posted by newyorkstadium

I have tried normal calipers. I could fit them on the shoe, they just compressed and squashed the fabric. I'll try outside calipers.

Running-warehouse cut the shoe to do it - http://www.runningwarehouse.com/Lear...l?video=FOOT01

What about something like "iGaging 8" Digital Outside Calipers"? Seems those would work well. I just searched calipers on amazon. I haven't played with these, but I'd guess that's probably what RW is using. I don't think they're destroying a pair of shoes each time they want to take measures.

[newyorkstadium]

I've done a thorough search. The cheapest place to buy a digital caliper is here:

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...ampaign=Google

[newyorkstadium]

An outside caliper doesn't work.

There is no way of getting the measurement, except measuring the circle, where the measurement comes out far too large.

[newyorkstadium]

Strangely, measuring with the ruler method, I get different measurements when measuring the right inner fabric and the left. I wasn't placing the ruler on a ridge either. This was true of the Gel Game 3 and vapor 9 tour.

[WildVolley]

Originally Posted by newyorkstadium

I have measured my Gel Game 3 using the linked method. I tried both the paper and bar clamp method.

http://www.runblogger.com/2010/06/he...t-does-it.html

Strangely, when measuring with the ruler method I get different measurements when measuring the right inner fabric and the left. I wasn't placing the ruler on a ridge either. This was true of both the Gel Game 3 and Vapor 9. I will list my measuring methods and results

Vapor 9
Bar Clamp/Paper method - 2.9-3.1
Ruler method - 3.0-3.7

Gel Game 3
Bar Clamp/Paper method - 3.2
Ruler method - 2.5-3.1

I will have to order some digital calipers, to find out whether the bar clamp method is right. I've given up on the method. It's too inaccurate.

I haven't tried any of these methods, so I don't have a feel for the difficulties.

I know with some shoes the insole has somewhat of a heel cup (perhaps the midsole, too?) which is going to make a difference if you don't measure at the center of low point of the heel cup.

The clamp method shown seems like the same as one of those bar calipers with an extension. I think there will always be some margin of error depending upon how the insole is pressed in the shoe, though I'd think the distance would be fairly consistent from shoe to shoe with modern manufacturing.

Still no one with a Nike shoe has posted a measurement?

[newyorkstadium]

The depth caliper is the only one with perfect accuracy. The digital caliper is not as reliable as I'd hoped, as the prongs can get stuck in a groove in the tread pattern. I will list my measuring methods and results.:

Gel Game 3
Bar Clamp method - 3.05 cm
Depth Caliper - 2.95 cm
Paper - 3 cm
Digital Outside Caliper - 3 cm

[newyorkstadium]

Here are all the methods I have found assorted by price:

Paper- $0
Bar Clamp - $5
Depth Caliper - $10
digital outside caliper $35