What can be done to reduce the cheating?

[Chemist]

Originally Posted by coaching32yrs

Ga: I saw the same thing in an Ivy match in the fall. Couldn't believe it. One coach went bonkers, screaming at other coach during match. Match was officiated, but player hooked on sideline opposite referee, so couldn't overrule. Ivy League smart.

Would you please provide more details? Which Ivy team was bad in calls? My son wants to play for an Ivy team. We will try to stay away from coaches who supported cheating.

Also I am not sure if umpires are required to have annual version exam. I watched a match at a non-sanctioned $50,000 pro event. The umpire, in his 70s, did not overrule or confirm any of the calls that were questioned. At least half of these calls were clearly bad. Luckily most umpires I have seen are pretty good and fair.

[justinmadison]

Originally Posted by ga tennis

Cheating happens on every level. God only knows how many pro men are doping(ATP is full of Armstrongs) College coaches break the rules. College players make terrible calls(I watched Georgia play Ohio State last year and the calls were ridiculous) Cheating is gonna happen!!! One thing i tell my daughter is you never lose a match because the other girl cheated and NEVER use that excuse just bring your targets in.

I am trying to follow your logic. College players make terrible calls, Cheating is gonna happen, etc.. Followed by “you never lose a match because the other girl cheated”. So from this train of thought … there are many people who cheat but it never makes a difference in who actually wins the match. So all cheating is ineffectual. The cheaters think it is helping them to win but never does. Is that your position?

[ga tennis]

Originally Posted by justinmadison

I am trying to follow your logic. College players make terrible calls, Cheating is gonna happen, etc.. Followed by “you never lose a match because the other girl cheated”. So from this train of thought … there are many people who cheat but it never makes a difference in who actually wins the match. So all cheating is ineffectual. The cheaters think it is helping them to win but never does. Is that your position?

My position is people cheat on all levels. So what its part of life. Its not gonna change so deal with it and dont use it as an excuse if you lose. Do you understand my train of thought?

[TCF]

Originally Posted by ga tennis

My position is people cheat on all levels. So what its part of life. Its not gonna change so deal with it and dont use it as an excuse if you lose. Do you understand my train of thought?

Like I said before, the number of parents and kids using it as an excuse vastly outweighs the actual cheating.

In our tournament, 3 girls lost to the 'cheater'. In my kid's match, she lost 3 points. In the other 2 girl's matches they lost what they said were 2-3 points.

Both the other girls and their parents went on and on about how the REASON they lost was cheating. My girl and I just politely listened.

On the way home we both talked about the real reasons she lost.....forgot to move in on the 2nd serve about half the time.....played a tall pusher with long arms and grew impatient and went for ridiculous winners too much....allowed the cheated points to bother her. She is now empowered to do better the next time.

I think the blatant cheating where a kid is literally robbed of a match is very rare. And in those cases, not much to do but keep asking for an official.

[Chemist]

Originally Posted by justinmadison

I am trying to follow your logic. College players make terrible calls, Cheating is gonna happen, etc.. Followed by “you never lose a match because the other girl cheated”. So from this train of thought … there are many people who cheat but it never makes a difference in who actually wins the match. So all cheating is ineffectual. The cheaters think it is helping them to win but never does. Is that your position?

We would never forget the player who made a bad call on the match point. Even getting umpire over and confirmation by two dozens of the spectators would not get that point reversed. However, the worst consequence of being cheated during a match is that our kids would lose control, focus, and ability to think and stops making good judgment... Our kids can grow their games to another level after learning how to deal with cheaters. A win over a cheater is so much sweeter!

[Anyone4tennis?]

Given the fact that the world itself is already filled with cheating and other bad behaviors, should the tennis court be yet another place where we expose our children to this problem behavior so that our kids can learn how to handle it the right way when it happens in their personal lives outside the tennis court?

Shouldn't junior tournaments be a place where, during their formative years, ALL children will learn how to compete gracefully under the pressure of match play without compromising their integrity, without abandoning virtues of honesty and respect for others? Wouldn't this not only be good for our children, but also good for the sport? After all, no one is bigger than the sport itself, and I would think that all those involved in the sport would do their part in maintaining its integrity, its reputation. At the pro levels, we see a lot is being done to ensure that the image of tennis is not tarnished. The same must be done at the junior level, especially since we are dealing with children.

I write this because I love tennis and care for ALL children and the influence that they will have in the world later in their adult lives. Cheating, unsportsmanlike conduct, profanity, and any other vulgar behavior should have no place in tennis if we could help it. It will continue to happen, I know, despite our efforts, but we should make sure that we are doing everything we can to make sure it is minimized, if not permanently eradicated, in the sport of tennis.

Unfortunately, some parents believe that they can only get ahead in life by cheating. Maybe it is because they have never met successful people who have forged ahead without cheating and despite cheaters, so they teach their children what may have worked for them or what they wrongly believe to be the only way to success. Junior tournaments should be a place where the children of these parents learn otherwise.

[Chemist]

Originally Posted by Anyone4tennis?

Given the fact that the world itself is already filled with cheating and other bad behaviors, should the tennis court be yet another place where we expose our children to this problem behavior so that our kids can learn how to handle it the right way when it happens in their personal lives outside the tennis court?

Shouldn't junior tournaments be a place where, during their formative years, ALL children will learn how to compete gracefully under the pressure of match play without compromising their integrity, without abandoning virtues of honesty and respect for others? Wouldn't this not only be good for our children, but also good for the sport? After all, no one is bigger than the sport itself, and I would think that all those involved in the sport would do their part in maintaining its integrity, its reputation. At the pro levels, we see a lot is being done to ensure that the image of tennis is not tarnished. The same must be done at the junior level, especially since we are dealing with children.

I write this because I love tennis and care for ALL children and the influence that they will have in the world later in their adult lives. Cheating, unsportsmanlike conduct, profanity, and any other vulgar behavior should have no place in tennis if we could help it. It will continue to happen, I know, despite our efforts, but we should make sure that we are doing everything we can to make sure it is minimized, if not permanently eradicated, in the sport of tennis.

Unfortunately, some parents believe that they can only get ahead in life by cheating. Maybe it is because they have never met successful people who have forged ahead without cheating and despite cheaters, so they teach their children what may have worked for them or what they wrongly believe to be the only way to success. Junior tournaments should be a place where the children of these parents learn otherwise.

100% agree! One way of improving the junior tournament experience may be to pay perhaps $10-20 extra to allow the tournament to hire more umpires. Majority of kids are very nice and fair especially after they get older.

[TCF]

Originally Posted by Anyone4tennis?

Given the fact that the world itself is already filled with cheating and other bad behaviors, should the tennis court be yet another place where we expose our children to this problem behavior so that our kids can learn how to handle it the right way when it happens in their personal lives outside the tennis court?

Shouldn't junior tournaments be a place where, during their formative years, ALL children will learn how to compete gracefully under the pressure of match play without compromising their integrity, without abandoning virtues of honesty and respect for others? Wouldn't this not only be good for our children, but also good for the sport? After all, no one is bigger than the sport itself, and I would think that all those involved in the sport would do their part in maintaining its integrity, its reputation. At the pro levels, we see a lot is being done to ensure that the image of tennis is not tarnished. The same must be done at the junior level, especially since we are dealing with children.

I write this because I love tennis and care for ALL children and the influence that they will have in the world later in their adult lives. Cheating, unsportsmanlike conduct, profanity, and any other vulgar behavior should have no place in tennis if we could help it. It will continue to happen, I know, despite our efforts, but we should make sure that we are doing everything we can to make sure it is minimized, if not permanently eradicated, in the sport of tennis.

Unfortunately, some parents believe that they can only get ahead in life by cheating. Maybe it is because they have never met successful people who have forged ahead without cheating and despite cheaters, so they teach their children what may have worked for them or what they wrongly believe to be the only way to success. Junior tournaments should be a place where the children of these parents learn otherwise.

This is all fine....but, the other side of the coin is just as big a deal. Many, many times I have heard parents grumble that the other kid was cheating. I am standing right next to them and clearly see the call was correct.

Cheating is an issue but so is parents and kids imagining every close call is a giant problem and an excuse....or simply being dead wrong and the kid closest to the ball actually made the right call.

Frankly I think the excuse making and waiting for a close call to play the victim/excuse card is every bit or more of a problem long term than the actual cheating.

[andfor]

Originally Posted by TCF

This is all fine....but, the other side of the coin is just as big a deal. Many, many times I have heard parents grumble that the other kid was cheating. I am standing right next to them and clearly see the call was correct.

Cheating is an issue but so is parents and kids imagining every close call is a giant problem and an excuse....or simply being dead wrong and the kid closest to the ball actually made the right call.

Frankly I think the excuse making and waiting for a close call to play the victim/excuse card is every bit or more of a problem long term than the actual cheating.

True. And when you are the parent you need to be very careful about judging your opponents calls. You will always be biased. Let the kids play. If there is a problem during the match don't interupt, make it a constructive learning experience post-match.

[chalkflewup]

Originally Posted by tball2day

Not cheating, but apparently cursing in English or Spanish will cost you the match...this Perez kid defaulted in FLA after letting a few colorful words fly.

From Zoo Tennis (I condensed link to full below):
At Salvadore Park, where the quarterfinals and semifinals were played today in the boys 18s and boys 14s division, top seed Christian Langmo got the most unusual win of his tennis career in the semifinals, when his opponent, unseeded Alfredo Perez, was defaulted from the match at 3-3 deuce in the third set.

Perez was defaulted for his third audible obscenity in the match, the first two coming in the last game of the first set when he was serving trailing 3-5.....At 3-5, 0-30, after a Langmo winner, Perez yelled out "he's playing out of his f***ing mind" and a roving umpire gave him a point penalty..........

The third set continued with both boys playing well and holding serve until, at 3-3, Perez let a 40-15 lead get away. When he failed to win a third game point, he shouted that he was playing like the Spanish word for excrement. The assistant referee checked with her Spanish-speaking colleague to make sure she had heard it correctly, and called both boys to the net, where she awarded the match to Langmo. Langmo shook Perez's hand, then Perez tossed his racquet in the direction of his bag and after a few seconds sat down and loudly said the same word again. Because he was defaulted for misconduct, the 15-year-old from Coral Gables was not allowed to play his doubles match later in the day.

Whole story is here:
http://tenniskalamazoo.blogspot.com/

I heard he destroyed his racquet which I've seen him do before in matches. Talented kid but it's not the first time he's exploded on the court. Oddly enough, the tournament was hosted where Perez trains and his coach I believe was the TD.

[10ismom]

Originally Posted by chalkflewup

I heard he destroyed his racquet which I've seen him do before in matches. Talented kid but it's not the first time he's exploded on the court. Oddly enough, the tournament was hosted where Perez trains and his coach I believe was the TD.

Maybe his coach told the refs to be tough. They might want to teach him a lesson.

[chalkflewup]

Originally Posted by 10ismom

Maybe his coach told the refs to be tough. They might want to teach him a lesson.

And maybe they gave him the benefit of the doubt.