When Your Male Partner Goes A'Huntin'

[beernutz]

Females who expect males to play differently in mixed than they do in same sex doubles matches should just not play mixed imo. That attitude is one reason why I played one season of mixed and then vowed 'never again'. In that season I had several female opponents who would stand well inside the baseline when receiving my serve then give me the stink-eye if I dared to hit a body serve at them.

[kimguroo]

If someone is scared by net plays, why she/he stands at the net?
Hitting at the net person is part of strategy which will give more options of shots.
if one can't handle net plays, please just move back.

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by tennis tom

Speaking from a female perspective, competitive doubles is all about hitting at the ladies. If you can't stand the heat--stay in the kitchen.

Originally Posted by Overdrive

Ummmm.................. that's an odd statement coming from a female...

Hey, I'm a male--but deeply in touch with my feminine side.

[Overdrive]

Originally Posted by tennis tom

Hey, I'm a male--but deeply in touch with my feminine side.

Yeah, I bet.

[asimple]

I am a big hitter and intentionally avoided mixed doubles over the years for that reason. My doubles strategy also doesn't work well as it is low down the middle on most shots with a few angles, and any popped up ball which can't be angled away hit hard directly at the opponent.

The problem with mixed is that some women seem to want to stand their ground when the appropriate play is duck and cover. I think some women want to have the ball hit hard at them by their definition, and anything above their definition is clearly inappropriate. Being married for a few years I now understand this philosophy, but prefer to avoid it in competitive situations.

[Mike Y]

If you are playing a league match, you play to win, and in doubles, that means going after the weaker player hard. In Mixed, that usually means going after the female. If she doesn't want to get hit, she can play back. So yes, I have hit at women hard with forehands and overheads. But it is foolish to aim high, since it is likely you will miss and it will go long. So I have hit lots of women (and many, many males) in the legs and lower body with the ball. That's not going to hurt anyone. There may be the rare case of someone getting injured by getting hit with the ball, but that is less likely than, say, someone twisting their ankle changing direction on the court. Besides, if a female gets hit with the ball, it is likely her partner's fault for allowing the opponent to hit the shot. Getting hit with the ball is a very common occurrence in doubles, and is no different in Mixed. And going after the woman is basically accepted by everyone who plays mixed doubles and it is what the males are instructed to do by captains and female partners. In fact, I know of a superior 4.5 male player who was held out of a playoff lineup almost solely because he does not go after the women when he plays.

[Rumruner]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

I was talking with a 4.0 female friend who plays 8.0 USTA mixed. She was saying she was deeply unhappy with her 4.0 male partner in a recent match because he kept trying to hit through the opposing lady at the net with his groundstrokes.

My friend was feeling like her partner's targeting of the opposing female meant it would be open season on her and the opposing male would feel free to retaliate and hit at here. My friend also said it was rude and unsporting for her partner to do what he did.

Now, I know we have had many threads here where many guys say they would never hit at the woman. I am asking about the female perspective: Do you actively discourage your male partner in league mixed from targeting the opposing female with volleys/groundstrokes? If he started doing this, would you tell him to stop?

There are three thing which could be done: Say back and not get hit, stay at the net, or stop playing.

[SwankPeRFection]

If they're 4.0's, they can make their own decision to stay at net or move back. Unless we're playing a friendly match or the girl is lower than 4.0, she gets the same strokes and the same serves as the guys. If you're there to play, play. It's not a game of courtship. I'm not going to nail a girl flat out with a ball, but if my only shot is to hit the ball to her, it's her job to defend against it.

[KineticChain]

why even play mixed if it always creates these undesirable dramas?

[chatt_town]

That's not true. I good 4.0 player could still blow through a 4.5 woman. Those numbers go out the window when men start cranking it up. It would maybe make it easier but it wouldn't be a non issue. I saw what was suppose to be some 5.0's playing at state next to us....two of them wouldn't have had a chance with good 4.0 men blowing them up at the net. They were both overweight and could barely keep their raquets up in front of them with the two girls they were playing so I could imagine what would happen if some men were hitting at them.

Originally Posted by OrangePower

Oh dear me, yet another thread about gender dynamics in mixed.

I've probably already said this 1,000 times, but any format that puts players of widely different skills levels on the same court at the same time, and then expects them to take it seriously and play a "competitive" match, is going to lead to problems.

If mixed were set up such that the female player needed to be 0.5 - 1.0 rating levels higher than the male player, gender would be a non-issue.

[chatt_town]

That's exactly right. Too many women want to be on court but they only want to be in a position to bring down their own overheads at the net or do what they want to do...God forbid a man hit a ball to them at their feet and they don't bend down to half volley or dig it out. You are considered a head hunter. Their is head hunting and then there is going at the woman...big difference. Head hunting is hitting a ball at a woman's head from close range....to me that is. I only do that to protect the woman that I'm playing with if the other man on the other side or the woman for that matter starts it. You have some women that live by the same ole thing they live by in real life(they think they can hit men but men shouldn't hit them back). I've seen some women that take it to the man or woman at the net but when it's their turn...it's wrong for the man to do it. I say if you are 4.0 and above you should be volleying so either have the sense to volley or get back. Men have to do it in men's doubles. We know what strokes we can and can't handle and govern accordingly. Women should do the same and not whine about being targeted.

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

If they're 4.0's, they can make their own decision to stay at net or move back. Unless we're playing a friendly match or the girl is lower than 4.0, she gets the same strokes and the same serves as the guys. If you're there to play, play. It's not a game of courtship. I'm not going to nail a girl flat out with a ball, but if my only shot is to hit the ball to her, it's her job to defend against it.

[tbuggle]

when did "hit it at/toward/to the skirt" lose out?

it's typically a winning/more sound strategy in mixed, but not always.

lastly, there are times when it should or should not happen, of course......pending levels of play and match intensity/situation, social etc.

head hunting is really never called for, regardless.

[Rjtennis]

I played a liitle mixed and always hated when people picked on the weaker player. It just lead to short points and boring tennis. Nobody is learning anything from getting picked on in a match. Mixed is a social a game. It around for people to have a good time and socialize. There always seem to be some major mis-matches in mixed and if they are really exploited it just ruins the match.

[doubleshack]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

Do you actively discourage your male partner in league mixed from targeting the opposing female with volleys/groundstrokes?

I know you are asking for the female perspective, sorry, can't give that. If it was social match, I'd have a different answer, but this is league. Target the weaker person.

However, to me, targeting the weaker player and hunting (the title of the thread) are two different things. If someone were to 'hunt' my partner, there will be trouble. But it would never occur to me to hunt their partner, as they did nothing wrong.

Fortunately, while I've seen hunting, it has not happened on my court (knock on wood).

[chatt_town]

That's BS. They have USTA sanctioned mixed matches. The weaker player be it man or woman should always get it. You have a bunch of women now that can't play but they will get on the courts with men at 8.0 and 9.0 mixed just to say they played at that level. Many times what you get is two men trying to show out and play each other while the women stand there with their raquets basically down to their waist looking like picture takers. Many of them barely break a sweat. Then when they get in a match with people that are trying to win, they start moaning about being picked on. Men do it in men's doubles. I don't know what makes women think they are exempt from this. I remember clearly being a target in a couple of tourneys I played in with men's doubles. I stepped up and got them off of me quick and won both tourneys playing with guys that were two levels above me. A doubles team is only as strong as it's weaker link. Anyone who knows anything about doubles knows that.

Originally Posted by Rjtennis

I played a liitle mixed and always hated when people picked on the weaker player. It just lead to short points and boring tennis. Nobody is learning anything from getting picked on in a match. Mixed is a social a game. It around for people to have a good time and socialize. There always seem to be some major mis-matches in mixed and if they are really exploited it just ruins the match.

[chatt_town]

You will be in trouble if/when it does. Your woman will be the only one on the court afraid. Most men that hunt won't stop because you are hitting at them. They get that in men's doubles. They will tend to stop when you hunt at the woman. She really is doing something wrong. She's still playing with him and basically condones it if she stays out there with him after he does it. She is saying she is okay with him hunting the female on the other side...that is until it happens to her. You should protect your female at all times on the court and the best way to do that is hunt everybody on the other side of the net including the woman. Otherwise, you won't have your mixed partner for long. You will go through them faster than Wilt Chamberlain.

Originally Posted by doubleshack

I know you are asking for the female perspective, sorry, can't give that. If it was social match, I'd have a different answer, but this is league. Target the weaker person.

However, to me, targeting the weaker player and hunting (the title of the thread) are two different things. If someone were to 'hunt' my partner, there will be trouble. But it would never occur to me to hunt their partner, as they did nothing wrong.

Fortunately, while I've seen hunting, it has not happened on my court (knock on wood).

[OrangePower]

Originally Posted by chatt_town

That's BS. They have USTA sanctioned mixed matches. The weaker player be it man or woman should always get it. You have a bunch of women now that can't play but they will get on the courts with men at 8.0 and 9.0 mixed just to say they played at that level. Many times what you get is two men trying to show out and play each other while the women stand there with their raquets basically down to their waist looking like picture takers. Many of them barely break a sweat. Then when they get in a match with people that are trying to win, they start moaning about being picked on. Men do it in men's doubles. I don't know what makes women think they are exempt from this. I remember clearly being a target in a couple of tourneys I played in with men's doubles. I stepped up and got them off of me quick and won both tourneys playing with guys that were two levels above me. A doubles team is only as strong as it's weaker link. Anyone who knows anything about doubles knows that.

I think you hit the nail on the head with the bolded bit. The weaker player should be the target.

Prolem is that mixed allows for much wider skill ranges to be playing against each other. For example in men's combo yeah you can be a 4.5 and one of your opponents is a 4.0, so that is one level difference. But in mixed you can be a 4.5 male and one of your opponents is a 3.5 woman, roughly equivalent to a 3.0 male, so that is 3 levels difference.

This is why mixed is often not going to be good, high-quality tennis (although it can be fun socially).

[chatt_town]

I agree with that...and I think it can get really tricky at 8.0 mixed(where you eluded to) because at that level the 4.5 man can possibly even be closer to a 5.0(the case many times in sanctioned matches as people are trying to win or qualify). Women need to be very careful about wanting to play 8.0 mixed especially as a 3.5 rated player. it could get ugly. I'm talking Shciavonie or Stepenak ugly here.

Originally Posted by OrangePower

I think you hit the nail on the head with the bolded bit. The weaker player should be the target.

Prolem is that mixed allows for much wider skill ranges to be playing against each other. For example in men's combo yeah you can be a 4.5 and one of your opponents is a 4.0, so that is one level difference. But in mixed you can be a 4.5 male and one of your opponents is a 3.5 woman, roughly equivalent to a 3.0 male, so that is 3 levels difference.

This is why mixed is often not going to be good, high-quality tennis (although it can be fun socially).

[bethany2]

This whole thread surprises me! I'm shocked that this is even an issue or question!

Would you all have as much of a problem if the woman was the stronger player and was going after ("hunting") the weaker player on the other team?

[chatt_town]

No, they wouldn't and there is where the problem is. I've come across several women that hit at men much less women. I remember playing against a college woman once. She was all of 6'0 tall and wasn't much difference between her build and her male partner(ex NFL running back with a winning Superbowl team). She unloaded on me at the net for the better part of a set in a half. They were kickin us as well. So the first chance I got, I unloaded on her and I thought we were going to have to stop the match from all the drama that unfolded. It was 9.0 mixed first of all and second of all...it was the finals...third...she had unloaded at me several times. I hate it when women do that. She also played d1 college(I forget where) but she could hit it. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Lord knows I was taking the bombs and the @$$whipping at the same time. I not one time complained about it...vollied most of them back but that is not the point. If you are going to unload then you certainly should be expected to be unloaded upon. She knew what she was doing because she never did that to my wife...but only at me. So it was by design and I had no problem with it.

Originally Posted by bethany2

This whole thread surprises me! I'm shocked that this is even an issue or question!

Would you all have as much of a problem if the woman was the stronger player and was going after ("hunting") the weaker player on the other team?