A couple of one handed backhand questions

[BevelDevil]

Originally Posted by watungga

Same high take back every shot (even high balls). Drop the racket as you begin you swing and step forward (power step) with your body weight into the ball (very important never to have your weight falling back). Make contact.. SHANK!

.. make contact, supinate early.. SHANK!

These 2 occassions never deserted me for ages. I'm blaming "Step forward" and "suppinating early" all the effing time.

The step is very important, and key to a consistency and power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW2_dyj6QiM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWTPw1l3qIU


Thinking about supinating will probably cause problems. Let it flow naturally by doing everything else right.

Originally Posted by LeeD

McEnroe would argue about the high takeback.

And Stefan Edberg, Pete Sampras and James Blake.

[gbgTennis]

Edberg actually had a pretty high takeback, Blake's is probably as low as McEnroe's was though.

[FrisbeeFool]

Originally Posted by BevelDevil

The step is very important, and key to a consistency and power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW2_dyj6QiM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWTPw1l3qIU


Thinking about supinating will probably cause problems. Let it flow naturally by doing everything else right.




And Stefan Edberg, Pete Sampras and James Blake.

That's what I've been saying for weeks. No sound ball-striker hits a shot, and thinks to themselves, "I will now supinate", during their stroke. It's a consequence of other things happening early in the stroke. That's why all these threads about how max supination and pronation and every other buzzword are the key to understanding the modern game are so counterproductive. When you're teaching someone to pronate on a serve, you don't even have to use the word pronation. You can have them throw a football and then mimic the release where the forearm and hand turn over. The guys that really pronate on serves aren't thinking at contact, ok time to pronate. It happens so dramatically because they have great fundamentals, like their shoulder turn and uncoiling which build the racket speed.

[FrisbeeFool]

Don't think about supinating on a one-hander Worry about other things like early prep, hitting through contact, keeping your hips sideways and extending forward.

[BevelDevil]

Originally Posted by gbgTennis

Edberg actually had a pretty high takeback, Blake's is probably as low as McEnroe's was though.

Depends what people mean by "take back."

When I say "low takeback", I mean, from the ready position, he's taking the racket back from underneath his shoulder. Someone once referred to this as a "pendulum" takeback, which is rare at the pro level today.

Like a pendulum, it's low at the bottom, but can reach a high point if the arc is big enough. Edberg had a very big arc.

So I think of "takeback" as the early part of the backswing, but not the entire backswing.

Using that terminology, I'd say Edberg had a low takeback but high backswing.

[FrisbeeFool]

............................

[boramiNYC]

Originally Posted by BevelDevil

Depends what people mean by "take back."

When I say "low takeback", I mean, from the ready position, he's taking the racket back from underneath his shoulder. Someone once referred to this as a "pendulum" takeback, which is rare at the pro level today.

Like a pendulum, it's low at the bottom, but can reach a high point if the arc is big enough. Edberg had a very big arc.

So I think of "takeback" as the early part of the backswing, but not the entire backswing.

Using that terminology, I'd say Edberg had a low takeback but high backswing.

I don't see the need for both terms to represent something different, but upon reexamining Edberg's 1hbh, you are correct. I'm not really a fan of such takeback but I'd consider it's a low takeback. It worked for him because of his height. He'll have hard time dealing with high topspin balls of modern tennis tho.

I'd consider Fed's takeback medium high. and Guga's takeback high. and the high take back is the best imo. esp in modern game. the high takeback and strong wrist control can deal with any types of balls.

[BevelDevil]

Originally Posted by boramiNYC

I don't see the need for both terms to represent something different,

I see your point.

On the other hand, there needs to be some word to describe the phase of the stroke we're talking about, specifically the hand movement/positioning at the early part of the unit turn.

Originally Posted by boramiNYC

but upon reexamining Edberg's 1hbh, you are correct. I'm not really a fan of such takeback but I'd consider it's a low takeback. It worked for him because of his height. He'll have hard time dealing with high topspin balls of modern tennis tho.

I'd consider Fed's takeback medium high. and Guga's takeback high. and the high take back is the best imo. esp in modern game. the high takeback and strong wrist control can deal with any types of balls.

Arguably, a high takeback can make it easier to generate topspin.

But for "handling" topspin, meaning hitting against a high, spinny ball, I don't think a low takeback is a liability. I think the chief advantages of a low takeback are: a smaller overall stroke, faster reaction, easier to hit on-the-rise and low balls, and easier adjustment to return of serve.

The downside is that it's less fluid, doesn't drop into the power position as naturally, and requires more work from the off hand.

[LeeD]

The downside.
You mean like the downsides of the 2hbh also?

[nat75]

Sabatini's backhand if anybody is interested.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XN2P5L41CbM

[JackB1]

some great stuff in this thread! keep it coming guys!

[Centerforward71]

Originally Posted by FrisbeeFool

That's what I've been saying for weeks. No sound ball-striker hits a shot, and thinks to themselves, "I will now supinate", during their stroke. It's a consequence of other things happening early in the stroke. That's why all these threads about how max supination and pronation and every other buzzword are the key to understanding the modern game are so counterproductive. When you're teaching someone to pronate on a serve, you don't even have to use the word pronation. You can have them throw a football and then mimic the release where the forearm and hand turn over. The guys that really pronate on serves aren't thinking at contact, ok time to pronate. It happens so dramatically because they have great fundamentals, like their shoulder turn and uncoiling which build the racket speed.

You are pretty correct but let me make a point.

Tennis as is golf and all sports with body motion is about kinematic sequences. I don't want to get overly scientific here but the pronation and supination are at the end of a sequence of other events leading up to it. At this point a correct sequence can allow a good player to over or under supinate/probate to achieve a desired effect. So to your answer while not wrong I will till you it's not 100%. I've played professional level sports and can tell you that you do manipulate as needed the pron/sup sequence at times and when needed. You cannot have the same supination for a flat 1HBH than for a loopy top spin one. That said there is a different kinematic sequence as well. Now do I consciously think of it? NO but your CNS tells your body to do so. Again if the kinematic sequence is wrong approaching the point of pro/sup then thinking of that as more or less will probably only enhance the previous error.

In summary worry about good grip, good footwork, good rotation to impact, good impact zone/timing and when you get there trust me your good enough to start over/under or natural pro/sup to get a desired effect on the ball.

On my 1HBH if I want to go sharp,cross court I start sequence earlier, hit a little earlier and to create a sharper angle I increase supination and upward stroke on the outside part of the ball. Now this happens by practice and subconscious effect when playing. There is no way I could think that in the middle of a point.

Hope this helps

[SharkysMV1]

All really good points here. I have been doing quite a bit of 1HBH work lately and one thing my instructors have pointed out is the consistent drive through the ball on the swing. My preparation is good, but at times I tend to "whip" through the ball near the time of contact and this pulls my body back, forcing a cross-court backhand. While the shot is effective, it limits your options. If you practice consistent "drives", you will be able to have a lot more placement options. Also, I agree with many people in this thread: the supination should come naturally.

[BevelDevil]

a lot of pros will supinate much less on DTL shots.

[Avles]

Originally Posted by 1980

Wow, thanks for the great examples. I hadn't really given any thought to the heelpad (had to look up the term), but it appears as though I was using the 'old guy' method. Now that I move it back more towards bevel 8/7 I am noticing that my racquet face is naturally slightly closed whereas before it seemed like I was supposed to arbitrarily close it on contact.

Recent threads have inspired me to focus on the heelpad as well-- looks like I was using the old guy method as well, because a purposefully "mountain bikey" grip feels quite different to me.

preliminary results:

-I net more balls
-I'm less apt to hit long
-noticeable increase in topspin
-low balls are a challenge- really have to bend the knees to get them

Overall it seems like a good change to incorporate, but I've just been drop-feeding so far-- looking forward to trying it out in a rally.

[BevelDevil]

^^^ awesome.

One tiny nuance that might help: If you're using a full Eastern or stronger, make sure your hand is all the way down to the buttcap. Specifically, the length of your little finger should be along the edge. Aside from effectively making your racket longer, the width of the buttcap should make it easier for the handle to fit snug in your palm.

Also, if you're on the tall side (say, 6'+), you might want to consider using something slightly lighter than Eastern. Wawrinka uses mild Eastern, Dimitrov uses continental. Just something to consider.

And if you can't find a partner or ball machine for a while, try a wall behind a strip mall.

[FrisbeeFool]

Originally Posted by BevelDevil

^^^ awesome.

Also, if you're on the tall side (say, 6'+), you might want to consider using something slightly lighter than Eastern. Wawrinka uses mild Eastern, Dimitrov uses continental. Just something to consider.

And if you can't find a partner or ball machine for a while, try a wall behind a strip mall.

Dimitrov uses a continental on slices, and an eastern on his topspin drives.

[FrisbeeFool]

Originally Posted by Centerforward71

You are pretty correct but let me make a point.

Tennis as is golf and all sports with body motion is about kinematic sequences. I don't want to get overly scientific here but the pronation and supination are at the end of a sequence of other events leading up to it. At this point a correct sequence can allow a good player to over or under supinate/probate to achieve a desired effect. So to your answer while not wrong I will till you it's not 100%. I've played professional level sports and can tell you that you do manipulate as needed the pron/sup sequence at times and when needed. You cannot have the same supination for a flat 1HBH than for a loopy top spin one. That said there is a different kinematic sequence as well. Now do I consciously think of it? NO but your CNS tells your body to do so. Again if the kinematic sequence is wrong approaching the point of pro/sup then thinking of that as more or less will probably only enhance the previous error.

In summary worry about good grip, good footwork, good rotation to impact, good impact zone/timing and when you get there trust me your good enough to start over/under or natural pro/sup to get a desired effect on the ball.

On my 1HBH if I want to go sharp,cross court I start sequence earlier, hit a little earlier and to create a sharper angle I increase supination and upward stroke on the outside part of the ball. Now this happens by practice and subconscious effect when playing. There is no way I could think that in the middle of a point.

Hope this helps

That's a really good explanation. Thanks.

[Relinquis]

Avles,

You might find that you have the freedom to hit through the ball more now. Actually, you might have to hit through it more to get the depth you are used to.

[BevelDevil]

Originally Posted by FrisbeeFool

Dimitrov uses a continental on slices, and an eastern on his topspin drives.

Hmm... maybe he changed his grip?

This vid from 2010 clearly looks continental:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox97-DQdm00