Priority One: Waste of money or Necessary?

[Bobby Jr]

Originally Posted by MAX PLY

Thanks for the good additional information, Drakulie. I must confess when I saw the $40k number, I thought it was too low. If Roger Federer is paying only $40k I would be shocked. I suspect it is significantly higher ( i.e., Roger is not a "mere Gold" customer).

This... ^

They customise 12 frames for him 4 times a year - so that's 48 frames right there. Plus he'd likely also have any others supplied if/when any are damaged - even cosmetically... Let's just call is 50 frame total... For each one P1 would have to spend a couple of hours on average weighing, weighting/balancing, custom-gripping, overwrapping, checking frames for damage etc - that alone would be 100 hours minimum a year. At a nominal consultancy rate of $100/hr that's $10k gone and he hasn't even had a single restring yet.

$40k is way too low imo if the P1 guys care to make any profit at all. For what it's worth even $100k would be a great deal for someone like Federer to permanently have someone else make sure he always has the frame he wants without even thinking about it and to never have to bother ordering strings/grommets/grips or other parts.

[Overdrive]

Originally Posted by Bobby Jr

This... ^

They customise 12 frames for him 4 times a year - so that's 48 frames right there. Plus he'd likely also have any others supplied if/when any are damaged - even cosmetically... Let's just call is 50 frame total... For each one P1 would have to spend a couple of hours on average weighing, weighting/balancing, custom-gripping, overwrapping, checking frames for damage etc - that alone would be 100 hours minimum a year. At a nominal consultancy rate of $100/hr that's $10k gone and he hasn't even had a single restring yet.

$40k is way too low imo if the P1 guys care to make any profit at all. For what it's worth even $100k would be a great deal for someone like Federer to permanently have someone else make sure he always has the frame he wants without even thinking about it and to never have to bother ordering strings/grommets/grips or other parts.

You think a P1 gold service is $100,000? I don't know about that...
The more you increase the price in a product, the more restrictions the consumer partakes. Besides pro players, I think tennis clubs who make alot of money and have alot of players, tournaments, coaches, staff, etc. could just chip in for a P1 gold service so everyone can get their racquets strung and customized.

Drakulie should've addressed the P1 guys about pricing information and how did they agree to the number 40,000.

[NLBwell]

I put lead, leather grip, overgrip, etc. on my 4 MG Prestige Pros. I matched them just by feeling the apparent weight and swinging it around. A couple months later I was able to check them out. I was within 1g on weight and 5 points on swingweight. So I can tell the difference between slight differences in weight.
However, I play with these rackets, my old Black Aces, a POG, an RDti70-88, and my Dad's oversize racket, and I don't play significantly better with the MGPPs than with all the totally different rackets. I generally play at least one set with one of the other rackets each time I play and there isn't a difference in results. (A string job will make a noticeable difference if it is strung too lose or if the poly is dead)
Mentally, it probably makes a difference to the pros to have each racket feel the same. It would bother them and hurt their confidence if a racket was different. I'm not sure that physically it would make a bit of difference if their rackets were identically matched or not.
For $40,000, which is pocket change to them, it is worth it to pay the $.

[rqtguy]

I find it interesting how much debate overdrive has stirred up over this issue.
Keep swinging away DW!

[Relinquis]

Originally Posted by SteveI

Some... regular folks here... like Jackb1 and TripleB spend $40,000 a year on frames and stringing...

haha... imagine if they spent that much money on coaching and practice. they'd probably be awesome tennis players...

[kkm]

Originally Posted by Bobby Jr

This... ^

They customise 12 frames for him 4 times a year - so that's 48 frames right there. Plus he'd likely also have any others supplied if/when any are damaged - even cosmetically... Let's just call is 50 frame total...

Federer's total is at least 60 a year, 5 sets of 12.

Don't forger that 40K covers only majors and masters 1000 tournaments and that players pay extra for P1 to string for them at other tournaments. For example, the Basel tournament, which a number P1 clients play, is a 500-level tournament. They would also pay extra for Dubai.

[Povl Carstensen]

Originally Posted by Overdrive

I wouldn't see a major difference between a Platinum service and a Gold service. Maybe just being able to string up to 100 frames at any time instead of the maximum of 60.

Platinum service includes not only making your own racket optimal, but also making the opponents less so.

[star 5 15]

I'm about 99% sure the Gold service is ONLY for touring pros. Take it from someone who is a Bronze Client. This thread is actually pretty comical really. P1 is the best in the business, and if they had more hours in the day, they would utilize them. Time is money and their time is extremely valuable. And whether or not someone needs the service is subjective. That is a personal choice.

[TennezSport]

Originally Posted by Overdrive

Yes because they are already under the "contract" from the beginning of the service to the expiration date.
If not, the racquet companies should actually pay for the players to use P1 because they are the ones that are sponsoring the players to use the racquets... But I guess it wouldn't make sense because they are already paying to use the racquets and paying the players for P1 is something that is miscellaneous or something.

Remember that most pros use the in house string services that the event provides. Only the players that can afford it are signed to a company like P1 or RPNY. I believe that string may be provided by the contracted company if the player has a contact but stringing is done for approx $25 per racquet. If a player has to provide their own string it has to be dropped off with the stringers along with instructions.

Originally Posted by Overdrive

Basically, a racquet butler!

Also I would not call it a butler service as they is a lot more engineering and expertise that goes into it, that rec players will never know.

Cheers, TennezSport

[Overdrive]

Originally Posted by kkm

Federer's total is at least 60 a year, 5 sets of 12.

Don't forger that 40K covers only majors and masters 1000 tournaments and that players pay extra for P1 to string for them at other tournaments. For example, the Basel tournament, which a number P1 clients play, is a 500-level tournament. They would also pay extra for Dubai.

Don't forget Grand Slams. I saw the P1 guys string Li's and Azarenka's racquets pre-match.

I don't understand paying extra for minors. They could just get more guys. :S

[Overdrive]

Originally Posted by star 5 15

I'm about 99% sure the Gold service is ONLY for touring pros. Take it from someone who is a Bronze Client. This thread is actually pretty comical really. P1 is the best in the business, and if they had more hours in the day, they would utilize them. Time is money and their time is extremely valuable. And whether or not someone needs the service is subjective. That is a personal choice.

But I don't believe that everyone on the ATP rankings can afford P1 Gold Service.

I'm not sure Male #578 can afford P1 Gold.

A P1 guy can fully customize a Gold client's maximum amount of racquets (50) for less than $40,000.

For example:

Let's say Federer uses a 10 Wilson racquet bag and uses it only for his racquets (I don't know if he does or not).

Let's say on average, a P1 guy can customize a Federer racquet in around 25 minutes.

So, 50 x 25= 1250 minutes or 20 hours roughly 8-9 minutes. They could easily just have more than one guy string his racquets.

Federer's "people" can just place the rest of the racquets in 4 other 10-pack racquet bags and transfer it from place to place. Shipping and handling fees from traveling may stack up in price, but no where near $40,000.

I know for sure that this would not equal $40,000.

[Chemist]

Originally Posted by Overdrive

Don't forget Grand Slams. I saw the P1 guys string Li's and Azarenka's racquets pre-match.

I don't understand paying extra for minors. They could just get more guys. :S

In one of the post match interviews at AO, Li Na was asked what her husband's new role was. Li said that he prepared her drinks and strung her rackets.

[Overdrive]

Originally Posted by TennezSport

Remember that most pros use the in house string services that the event provides. Only the players that can afford it are signed to a company like P1 or RPNY. I believe that string may be provided by the contracted company if the player has a contact but stringing is done for approx $25 per racquet. If a player has to provide their own string it has to be dropped off with the stringers along with instructions.



Also I would not call it a butler service as they is a lot more engineering and expertise that goes into it, that rec players will never know.

Cheers, TennezSport

Really? I didn't know that. So #578 uses the in-house stringing?

I don't know, they seem to be experienced racquet butlers to me... :/

[Overdrive]

Originally Posted by Chemist

In one of the post match interviews at AO, Li Na was asked what her husband's new role was. Li said that he prepared her drinks and strung her rackets.

Ha, that's funny

Well, it's cheaper than using P1!

[kkm]

Originally Posted by Overdrive

Don't forget Grand Slams. I saw the P1 guys string Li's and Azarenka's racquets pre-match.

I don't understand paying extra for minors. They could just get more guys. :S

majors = the Australian Open, French Open, Wimbledon, US Open

grand slam = winning all four majors in a year

You would have seen Wilson/RPNY stringing the WTA finalists' racquets before the Australian Open final.

The $40000 gold service fee is for customizing a player's racquets and stringing his racquets at the majors and masters 1000 tournaments, not just for customizing. The silver and bronze services are for clients who need customizing only, and probably cost quite a bit less.

Why would the P1 guys charge what it costs them in travel expenses and supply costs? Breaking even is the same as having a job that pays nothing. I'm guessing that they actually want to make a living. Being away from home much of the year, staying in hotels, getting up at odd hours to string while already jetlagged, not having home-cooked meals, finding time to sleep and eat, and otherwise passing time while their players are practicing and playing matches are no fun. Don't forget that racquet techs who do work for touring pros, including P1 and a few others, have specialized knowledge and capabilities, and that's part of what touring pros are paying for. $40000 is not so much for a successful singles player. Pros who sign up with traveling private stringers are also paying for the peace of mind that all they have to do is show of at the tournament and that there will be the same person to take care of their equipment needs. And the pros who have P1 just customize their racquets but not string for them probably believe it to be a decent value, otherwise would they sign with P1?

[kkm]

And don't forget that flying to and staying in Melbourne, Indian Wells, Miami, Monte-Carlo, Madrid, Rome, Paris, Wimbledon, Montreal/Toronto, Cincinnati, New York, Shanghai, Paris again, and London (the WTF), when these tournaments are held, because so many want to go there, would probably mean that already pretty high airfare and accommodation could easily be even more expensive at tournament time. They do a few non-major non-masters 1000 tournaments and an occasional Davis Cup series, it adds up.

[drakulie]

Originally Posted by Overdrive

Don't forget Grand Slams. I saw the P1 guys string Li's and Azarenka's racquets pre-match.

That wasn't P1. That was the stringers for the wilson string team.

Originally Posted by Chemist

In one of the post match interviews at AO, Li Na was asked what her husband's new role was. Li said that he prepared her drinks and strung her rackets.

He doesn't string her frames. I believe what she meant, is that he takes the racquets to the stringers and then picks them up.

[Rogael Naderer]

Originally Posted by drakulie

That wasn't P1. That was the stringers for the wilson string team.



He doesn't string her frames. I believe what she meant, is that he takes the racquets to the stringers and then picks them up.

Indeed, he's certainly been demoted!

[Rogael Naderer]

Funny actually that someone noticed that at one of the tournament's where P1 were not offering their services to RF, his overgrip was wrapped noticeably differently and unevenly!

They really have an eye for detail that even my anal self can admire!

[Povl Carstensen]

Originally Posted by Overdrive

Besides pro players, I think tennis clubs who make alot of money and have alot of players, tournaments, coaches, staff, etc. could just chip in for a P1 gold service so everyone can get their racquets strung and customized.

What makes you think P1 would take on a whole club, on one gold service? Rather out of touch with reality I would say.