Greatest Player Ever ... vs. the Greatest Talent

[Lavs]

Team 'Greatest' - Federer, Djokovic, Sampras, Lendl, Nadal
Team 'Talent' - Nalbandian, Safin, Rios, Agassi, JMac

(Federer and Agassi could be easily put in both teams)

The question, which team would win is a challenge though

[above bored]

Originally Posted by byealmeens

I agree with a lot of your points, but I disagree that Fed's game has not improved, especially his backhand. I think the standard is higher today ... baseline bashing is a huge part of the game and Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray have raised the bar. His backhand has become better if for no other reason than to compete with these guys.

But there are intangibles, of course. Confidence, movement, fitness, etc. At his prime, Federer had more of each, and I think maybe that is what he's referring to. In terms of the stroke it self ... the consistency, power, and even spin I would say is better today.

Can you honestly say Federer's backhand has become better than it was in these videos? If there are any videos which show a marked improvement in this display from 2006 and 2007, I would definitely like to see them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfWRmlarBks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAyh1zB4AwA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WASb906o11E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9MuA9K_w8Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqG-PpP7H0s

[Steve0904]

Originally Posted by above bored

Can you honestly say Federer's backhand has become better than it was in these videos? If there are any videos which show a marked improvement in this display from 2006 and 2007, I would definitely like to see them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfWRmlarBks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAyh1zB4AwA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WASb906o11E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9MuA9K_w8Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqG-PpP7H0s

I agree. People like to say his BH has improved, but it really hasn't, at least not to the naked eye. It's become more consistent to match the slowing of the courts these days, but I wouldn't say it's better than it was in his prime. I think it's a conscious adjustment Federer's made tbh. In his prime it was a more aggressive shot. Today it's probably more consistent, but as I said the slight difference in his BH has to do with the difference in the courts IMO. Also he doesn't do the flick BH anymore. At least very rarely, and it's not because he lost the talent to do that particular shot. He's just slower than before.

[NetNinja68]

Originally Posted by Warmaster

If Djokovic his movement is better, his groundstrokes are better and his serve is better, then why does Federer at 31 win more service games than prime Djokovic?

Feds serve is definitely better and his forehand and volley are a little better but everything else goes to the Djoker!

[10is]

Originally Posted by above bored

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq066-sAEW0

... And to think I used to consider the Aus Open "slow" at the time... these days I don't think any major is even as "fast" as the "slow" Aus Open was back then... rather sad and ironic.

[10is]

Originally Posted by Steve0904

I agree. People like to say his BH has improved, but it really hasn't, at least not to the naked eye. It's become more consistent to match the slowing of the courts these days, but I wouldn't say it's better than it was in his prime. I think it's a conscious adjustment Federer's made tbh. In his prime it was a more aggressive shot. Today it's probably more consistent, but as I said the slight difference in his BH has to do with the difference in the courts IMO. Also he doesn't do the flick BH anymore. At least very rarely, and it's not because he lost the talent to do that particular shot. He's just slower than before.

Exactly!

*****

[Sid_Vicious]

10is! Welcome back. Your eloquent posts were missed.

[10is]

Originally Posted by Sid_Vicious

10is! Welcome back. Your eloquent posts were missed.

Awwww Sid... thank you! I had to leave for I could slowly feel my sanity being trampled away by the incessant and shameless trolling here, ironically mirroring the current attritious/atrocious nature of the sport which sadly nourishes it. Which is why I envy the fortitude of stalwart and decent individuals like yourself and a few others like zagor and abmk to not only withstand the lunacy but actually attempt to challenge it. THE AUDACITY!!! Alas! I lack both the courage and the vigor and actually find some of the more obstinate trolls here rather frightening creatures. After all... THIS. IS. TALKTENNIS!!!!!!!!

Though I must say, you are being way too kind -- not so much eloquent as verbose and redundant I'm sure. :P

[LuckyR]

Originally Posted by Clay lover

If you are talking about them having to work hard to make it , you are talking about skill, not talent right ? I think working hard to surpass your contemporaries is one thing ; having the talent to get there in the first place and sustain your game is another. Naddjokmur became factors at a young age because of their talent.

Well, I have intentionally shied away from throwing around the terms: "skill" and "talent" partially because there is not a consensus on what they exactly mean and partially because even if there was agreement on the definition, ultimately they are meaningless since tennis is Won and Lost based on points, games & sets, not evaluations from judges.