Recommend stringing machine

[Technatic]

If money is no object, go for the most expensive one in your budget range. It is like why drive a honda if you can afford a Lamborghini?

I like this one because the answer is easy; For the quality.
Our whole family drives Honda, among them some very old ones, and we never had to go to the garage for any defect with any of them.

The Lamborgini has "built in defects" being built in Italy.

And perhaps this answer counts for stringing machines also: Better buy a high quality drop weight than a lower quality electronic from Asia.

[kkm]

If one's budget allows and his antiicpated usage justifies the outlay, why not buy a high-quality electronic machine? And one could even look for a used high-quality machine in good condition.

[Technatic]

If one's budget allows and his antiicpated usage justifies the outlay, why not buy a high-quality electronic machine? And one could even look for a used high-quality machine in good condition.

I fully agree!

[jgrushing]

Originally Posted by Irvin

Affordable low use = cheap drop weight. You get what you pay for, no matter what all the X2 and KM owners are going to cry out. Misery loves company. I am not saying they are not good machines that will last a very long time, but that they are very affordable and designed for low production which appears to be a perfect fit for your parameters.

If you buy a high end machine and string every couple of weeks it will take you decades to recoup your money.

Irvin,

I agree with your posts much more often than not and you're certainly more of an expert than I. Even with the post above, I think you're mostly right on. A $2K stringing machine in a basement used twice a month is, for the most part, an unnecessary luxury. It's probably a much better stringing experience.

However, the whole "you get what you pay for" statement implies that the string jobs on entry drop weights are, by their very nature, inferior to stringing on a more sophisticated machine. I would be glad to string two racquets, one on a Klippermate and the other on a Neos with a Wise system, and defy people to tell the difference. I'm not talking Roger Federer or Pete Sampras. I am talking about the people on this board; up to 5.0 or 5.5 players.

I've strung for many years and found that most players, even the good one, don't know what they use or want. And for the most part, they don't know the difference. I know that I can turn out job after job that's very consistent, in under 25 minutes on a KM. I enjoy stringing on the Neos more but it's still just a tennis racquet when it's done.

Because we enjoy it, we tend to over-mystify the whole stringing process as if it's some magical thing. The truth is, for non-stringers out there, it's quite easy with just a little practice. My 18 year old son was stringing very acceptably at 12 years old.

Get what you can afford within reason to the level of convenience you'd prefer. All of the durable machines string racquets just fine.

[Irvin]

I could agree more with one exception. I don't think anyone could identify a racket was strung on a KM or the best stringer in the world. I do think it is far easier to have consistancy results with a better machine but I would challenge anyone to tell me which machine a racket was strung on.

Normally I don't reply to these threads about which machine is best for me because only you know the right answer to that question. But if you want the most affordable machine for a home stringer buy a cheap drop weight. If you are going to open a pro shop and will have different people using the same machine and want consistent results in a short period of time cranks and drop weights ahold not be on your list.

Now some are going to say these automatic drop weights are consistent. I am going to say you can't not set a drop weight of any kind to a specific value within +/- 0.1 lb 3 times in a row. Maybe +/- 0.5 lbs would be good. If that's the best you can do then why not just use a normal drop weight and forget paying the extra money for "automatic drop weight" marketing jumbo jumbo.

[Technatic]

Now some are going to say these automatic drop weights are consistent. I am going to say you can't not set a drop weight of any kind to a specific value within +/- 0.1 lb 3 times in a row. Maybe +/- 0.5 lbs would be good. If that's the best you can do then why not just use a normal drop weight and forget paying the extra money for "automatic drop weight" marketing jumbo jumbo.

Hi Irvine,

I think that we had this discussion about the accuracy of auto drop weights and electronic machines before.
The “smoke curtain” of any electronic machines is that it “makes the stringer think” that it is very accurate within +/- 0,1 lbs because it has the digital display.

In praxis it is impossible for the complicated system of an electronic machine to pull on that accuracy and certainly not with the “second pull”:
- The electric motor has to stop pulling at exactly the chosen tension, which is very difficult and which results in overshoot that many electronic machines create.

It is very hard to beat the simplicity of the drop weight and certainly the auto-ones and if the string needs a tiny repull the system does that without a problem and any overshoot.
And calibration is not needed with such a system as long as the earth pulls at the same weight.

[Irvin]

If you take a sliding drop weight the weight is placed on a bar at various marks. The difference between 60 lbs and 59 or 60 lbs is probably 1 mm. Are you trying to tell me you can hit that 60 lb mark time after time with < +/- 0.1 mm accuracy every time? If you are I don't believe it. And you are right an electronic will pull individual strings at probably +/- 0.2 lbs but over the entire string bed I would think it is more consistent than always being off +/- 0.2 lbs like an automatic drop weight. Then you have the crank machine when calibrated properly and set to 60 lbs it will lock out at 60 lbs with < 0.1 lb accuracy over and over and over again. Ad oh yet as soon as it locks out the string starts stretching so you will have exactly 5% or 10% tension loss. I guess it all depends on what expert you listen to. There is not law that says I can't pull tension more than once. No matter what kind of tensioner you use once the tension is disconnected you start to loose tension.

EDIT: I guess what I am trying to say is there isn't a best stringer for anyone, and every type stringer from the lowest to highest priced models has its own unique clientele.

EDIT: I would go so far to some some people may string with a big Wilson machine at home and take an X2 on the road with them. One machine is not right or the best for anyone all the time. And if you don't know a lot more than what you can glean from a few posts about the person that will be using a machine how can you identify what is best for him. All I know is he is a home stringer and wants to spend $1-2K. I don't even know what kind of dollars he is talking about.

EDIT: Oops my bad he said 1-2k and I assumed dollars.

[Dr. Perry]

One portable + one stationary? It is an intriguing idea.

Correct me if you see it differently: I don't think the 0.1, 0.5 lb accuracy will make any difference in the game, neither the outcome nor the feel. When the tension is consistent across board, that's what matters.

[Tennusdude]

Originally Posted by v-verb

Klippermate. Cheap, reliable, time tested.

Klipper is good except that you will have to raise tension to make the job comparable to what was done on crank or electronic. Dont let them fool you, even though the drop weight is constant pull, those flying clamps lose alot of tension.

[Technatic]

If you take a sliding drop weight the weight is placed on a bar at various marks. The difference between 60 lbs and 59 or 60 lbs is probably 1 mm. Are you trying to tell me you can hit that 60 lb mark time after time with < +/- 0.1 mm accuracy every time? If you are I don't believe it.

Could it be that you mean the scale of a crank?

Dropweights have a bar of 40 to 50 cm for a scale from 10 to to 35 kg, meaning 16 to 20 mm per kg.
The dropweight I used and still have has a distance of 23 mm between kg's, so 2,3 mm for every 0,1 kg.
so I think that you can adjust this very accurately, because the scale is much wider than on a crank.

[mad dog1]

Originally Posted by Irvin

If you take a sliding drop weight the weight is placed on a bar at various marks. The difference between 60 lbs and 59 or 60 lbs is probably 1 mm. Are you trying to tell me you can hit that 60 lb mark time after time with < +/- 0.1 mm accuracy every time? If you are I don't believe it. And you are right an electronic will pull individual strings at probably +/- 0.2 lbs but over the entire string bed I would think it is more consistent than always being off +/- 0.2 lbs like an automatic drop weight. Then you have the crank machine when calibrated properly and set to 60 lbs it will lock out at 60 lbs with < 0.1 lb accuracy over and over and over again. Ad oh yet as soon as it locks out the string starts stretching so you will have exactly 5% or 10% tension loss. I guess it all depends on what expert you listen to. There is not law that says I can't pull tension more than once. No matter what kind of tensioner you use once the tension is disconnected you start to loose tension.

Originally Posted by Technatic

Dropweights have a bar of 40 to 50 cm for a scale from 10 to to 35 kg, meaning 16 to 20 mm per kg.
The dropweight I used and still have has a distance of 23 mm between kg's, so 2,3 mm for every 0,1 kg.
so I think that you can adjust this very accurately, because the scale is much wider than on a crank.

technatic is right on and irvin is misguided once again. if you've had firsthand experience stringing on a stringway autodropweight, you'd know.

[Irvin]

Originally Posted by Dr. Perry

One portable + one stationary? It is an intriguing idea.

Correct me if you see it differently: I don't think the 0.1, 0.5 lb accuracy will make any difference in the game, neither the outcome nor the feel. When the tension is consistent across board, that's what matters.

If you're playing with one racket you're correct.

[Technatic]

found a nice picture:

[Tamiya]

Originally Posted by Technatic

found a nice picture:

dayum, if you're gunna position your weightknob right onto printed scale... that's a great way of screwing up that vital printed label

[Irvin]

That is very good. And if I wanted to string the mains at 60 and crosses at 55 I would just set the weight to 27.22 and 24.95 respectively. It would be easier if you had a pound scale which i am sure you do. I can see how that would be very accurate but not racket after racket. Whereas if you had an electronic with two memory buttons (M1 and M2) you could select the tension over and over again and switch very easily by just pressing a button, and switch from lb to kilo very easily. The more human interaction you have the more human error you have.

[Tamiya]

meh, if "accuracy" to the very last fraction of a pound was
that important... mfg could easily make a dropweight arm that
was a threaded rod & the weight winds up/down like a big nut

or just rig up a tension balance to check

[Irvin]

If a customer wants a specific tension and you are two pounds off (yes i know that really is a lot) not problem he should just adjust his tension the next time (and should expect the same error.) Accuracy is not that important in a single racket. Accuracy in multiple rackets is very important if a player want the same in all of them.

[kkm]

Originally Posted by Irvin

If you take a sliding drop weight the weight is placed on a bar at various marks. The difference between 60 lbs and 59 or 60 lbs is probably 1 mm. Are you trying to tell me you can hit that 60 lb mark time after time with < +/- 0.1 mm accuracy every time? If you are I don't believe it. And you are right an electronic will pull individual strings at probably +/- 0.2 lbs but over the entire string bed I would think it is more consistent than always being off +/- 0.2 lbs like an automatic drop weight. Then you have the crank machine when calibrated properly and set to 60 lbs it will lock out at 60 lbs with < 0.1 lb accuracy over and over and over again. Ad oh yet as soon as it locks out the string starts stretching so you will have exactly 5% or 10% tension loss. I guess it all depends on what expert you listen to. There is not law that says I can't pull tension more than once. No matter what kind of tensioner you use once the tension is disconnected you start to loose tension.

Exactly!

Plus while there are electronic machines that overshoot, there are electronic machines that don't.

The Stringway ruler is kind of clumsy to adjust exactly the position of the weight on the bar, the ruler is not engraved on the bar, and there could be a better design and method than holding the ruler parallel to the bar to approximate the position of the weight on the bar according to the ruler, no? It surprises me more when this JET method of stringing requires changing tension several times while stringing a single racquet, how can there be great precision in general with a Stringway automatic dropweight, or even greater precision than for an electronic machine, with absolute certainty?

[Irvin]

Originally Posted by kkm

Exactly!

Plus while there are electronic machines that overshoot, there are electronic machines that don't.

The Stringway ruler is kind of clumsy to adjust exactly the position of the weight on the bar, the ruler is not engraved on the bar, and there could be a better design and method than holding the ruler parallel to the bar to approximate the position of the weight on the bar according to the ruler, no? It surprises me more when this JET method of stringing requires changing tension several times while stringing a single racquet, how can there be great precision in general with a Stringway automatic dropweight, or even greater precision than for an electronic machine, with absolute certainty?

I think where Technatic is coming from is how the electronic machines operate. There must be some on/off built in even if it is just 0.1 lbs (a Wise is about 0.2) so if I set the tension to 60 it pulls to some value (and a good electronic will always be the same) and shuts off. I'm not saying now if the tension is set to 60 it pulls to 60. Then the string relaxes and the electronic tensioner recognizes that an pull again to the same value it did before. So there is a +/- 0.2 error that's almost a half pound. When you clamp the tension could be anywhere in that range. And the faster you are the less consistent you are. The slower you are the more consistent you are. The slower you are the more time the string has to relax. Most of the relaxation is just after the stretch and if you clamp fast enough you cand stop that stretch so the electronic pulls once and is stopped when you clamp. Just like a lockout. If you takes a few seconds and allow the string to stretch the electronic will not continuously pull but will pull several times. If you listen you will hear it cutting off and on. The longer you let it pull the longer the interval between the offs and ons and the more consistent.

I hate to admit this but there is only one type of continuous pull and that is with a drop weight. But is continuous pull really all that great? Would it be more consistent to pull for an exact length of time at an exact tension? If you answered yest you want a lockout. And there are arguments for electronics too.

[Technatic]

But is continuous pull really all that great? Would it be more consistent to pull for an exact length of time at an exact tension? If you answered yest you want a lockout. And there are arguments for electronics too.

If all strings would stretch in the same way the lock out systems would be quite consistent, but that is far from true. There are fast strings and slow strings and stretchy strings and stiff strings.

* The difference and stretch behavior causes huge differences in the DT value on lock out machines.
I would like to use graphs that were discussed earlier to show these differences:


This graph shows the tension in 2 multifilament nylons a fast one and a slow one.
Loss of tension in the upper graph is 17,6 lbs (out of 66 lbs) and most of the tension drop occurs in less than a second. This is a “fast string” which stretches very fast.
Loss of tension in the lower graph is 11 lbs and the tension drops quite slow. This string stretches slower, because there is more friction between the elements.
The rising graph shows that the speed of pulling is about the same.


This upper graph shows a stiff mono (2,7 % tot el) and the loss of tension is 10 lbs and the string stretches slowly.
The graph at the bottom shows a stretch mono ( 6 % tot el) and the tension loss is 13,2 lbs and the tension drops quite fast, so it is a ‘fast’ string.
So the difference in loss of tension and DT value is huge and depends on the type of string.

* The second problem with a lock out is that it actually prestretches every string, making it stiffer to play with then it is on a CP machine.
A string is prestretched when the string is tensioned at a higher tension before it reaches the actual final tension. So the strings in the graphs are prestretched at tensions which are 10 to 17,6 lbs higher than the final tension.

This changes the playability the string considerably the player will feel a stiffer string.

On a CP machine the tension in the string will not overshoot the adjusted tension by more than 1 or 2 lbs, depending on the quality of the CP system.

IMO it is impossible for a stringer to reckon with these influences of the specs of the strings.