Vince Spadea's tips on FH and Serve

[Povl Carstensen]

Originally Posted by LeeD

Post 126.
Depends if the accelerating racket was still being accelerated at the moment of impact.
If it's not, then inertia is the only answer....the same.

That is exactly what I mean also.

[Povl Carstensen]

Originally Posted by Topspin Shot

Povl Carstensen, there would be no difference between getting hit by a racket hung out the window of a car going 40 mph than getting hit by a racket accelerating to 20 mph in a car going 20 mph. 20 mph+20 mph=40 mph. 40 mph is 40 mph. Now, holding the racket loosely might lessen the force of impact because doing so would decrease the mass component of p=mv. What would happen is that the mass would be more along the lines of the mass of the racket rather than the mass of the racket plus the mass of the person holding it.

I think you are disregarding my post 126 somewhat, or perhaps you just disagree.
What I think is interesting is that my thought connects acceleration to mass. Due to the acceleration, the racket is more in contact with the weight of the arm and body. You so to speak increase the swingweight of the racket-body unit. Not unlike how firm/loose you hold the racket as you say. Inertia presses the racket back in the accelerating hand, connecting it more to the weight of the body and arm.
So we are over the ma, and back to mv, but not looking solely at the racket m.

[Povl Carstensen]

Originally Posted by boramiNYC

if the v is sacrificed due to more solidness throughout the swing that would be arming the ball. and the hit would lose the potential.

I am not advocating sacrifying v.

[Mikael]

Spadea is right that proper extension is a key to great FHs and "derailing" the way he describes pulling away too early is probably the most common technical mistake at 4.5+ levels. It's too bad he just talked about extension vs pulling away, almost making people think of extension and rotation as two opposites. Then you get people trying to extend through the shot forcefully, which doesn't really work either.

IMO, if you get the right rotation, and the right contact point, you automatically get great extension without having to consciously extend. The right rotation, ie, rotation through the spinal axis. People pull away from the stroke the way Spadea describes it when they rotate through the shoulder instead of rotating through the spine.

Get the right kind of rotation going, and extension takes care of itself.

[Topspin Shot]

Povl, I think I see what you're saying. Accelerating the hand at impact might very well increase the effective mass of the racket+body at impact due to the inertia of the racket. However, I'm pretty sure that any gain in power due to this phenomenon would be more than canceled out by the fact that if the racket is accelerating at impact, it has not yet reached maximum velocity.

[LeeD]

could some player's DEcellerate the hand to allow the HEAD of the racket to accelerate further?

[Topspin Shot]

^^^ Yes- it should happen naturally.

[LeeD]

Should it?
Most players who show vids here do not slow down the hand, and keep the hand accelerating well past the ball strike, shown by their superlow hand at the followthru.
I think it's a LEARNED proposition.

[Topspin Shot]

Sorry, it is something learned. What I meant is that the player does not consciously think about slowing the hand during the stroke. With the right technique, it should happen naturally, kind of like pronation on the serve.

[TennisCJC]

Originally Posted by Topspin Shot

Sorry, it is something learned. What I meant is that the player does not consciously think about slowing the hand during the stroke. With the right technique, it should happen naturally, kind of like pronation on the serve.

I think de-cel-ing the hand is basically a kiss of death on your ground strokes. You want legs/hips/shoulder to pull arm/hand and hand to pull racket head up/thru and across. The rotation should be smooth and accelerating into and thru contract until it flows/runs out in a WW follow-thru.

The forearm pronates into WW follow-thru long after the ball is gone. If you want to de-cel something to speed up you RHS, try stopping your opposite (L) hip or even pulling your oppossite (L) shoulder back to speed up your racket shoulder.

The hand/wrist should be very passive just before, during and just after contact. Don't screw with it.

[LeeD]

Serve and groundie technique is different. Slowing the hand is service technique, advanced.
Slowing the hand on groundies is something accomplished with the reverse finish.

[TennisCJC]

My comment above is for groundstrokes. Volleys, you can "stop" the hand but the wrist doesn't change position - again wrist is passive.

[TennisCJC]

Originally Posted by LeeD

Serve and groundie technique is different. Slowing the hand is service technique, advanced.
Slowing the hand on groundies is something accomplished with the reverse finish.

How does reverse finish slow hand? I use some reverse finishes and still accelerate thru - no different than normal finish except steeper angle thru contact.

I can visualize stopping hand on serve at contact.

[boramiNYC]

Originally Posted by Povl Carstensen

I am not advocating sacrifying v.

Oscar clearly states the max v is achieved way past the contact point. Wouldn't this be wasting or sacrificing v for some other reason?

Acceleration at contact is necessary but it may not even be the greatest in magnitude throughout the swing. most likely greatest somewhere before reaching contact point. What matters most is max v is at or close to the contact point.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by boramiNYC

Oscar clearly states the max v is achieved way past the contact point. Wouldn't this be wasting or sacrificing v for some other reason?

Acceleration at contact is necessary but it may not even be the greatest in magnitude throughout the swing. most likely greatest somewhere before reaching contact point. What matters most is max v is at or close to the contact point.

He is partially correct, as the upward speed seems to max out some time after contact, but the forward speed starts going down. The net speed seems to be going down after contact.

[max pl]

Career record 311–359
Career titles 1
Plus criticism of todays top pros

Yeh, not gonna take this dudes opinion about anything tennis.

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by max pl

Career record 311–359
Career titles 1
Plus criticism of todays top pros

Yeh, not gonna take this dudes opinion about anything tennis.

How many titles do you have?

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by max pl

Career record 311–359
Career titles 1
Plus criticism of todays top pros

Yeh, not gonna take this dudes opinion about anything tennis.

You know that he has beaten Sampras, Agassi, Federer and Nadal, right?

[Topspin Shot]

Okay, I'm doing a really bad job of explaining how and why the hand slows down. Think of the arm like a pendulum. A pendulum reaches its max velocity when the bob (your hand) is directly beneath the fulcrum (your shoulder). But you don't hit the ball at that point. You hit the ball out in front, later in the swing path. With the out in front contact point, the hand is slowing down, and the racket has reached maximum velocity. An untrained player will subconsciously think in terms of the hand, contact the ball in line with his body, and lose power and topspin. All you have to do for the hand to slow down is to contact the ball out slightly out in front of the body.

[boramiNYC]

Originally Posted by max pl

Career record 311–359
Career titles 1
Plus criticism of todays top pros

Yeh, not gonna take this dudes opinion about anything tennis.

you are ridiculous. find top teaching pros in your area that can match such record. you are underestimating how much and deep of the knowledge required to compete at that level. you obviously have no idea.