Finding my serve after 20 years.

[LeeD]

Let's not obsess quite so much about pure mechanics.
Try to fall towards the target, not out to your left, and you'll gain another 10% more ball speed, plus you'll end up in better court position. Toss more right.
You jump fine, you swing fine, but at your height, maybe the idea of a perfect form serve like the pros is not needed.
The angle doesn't show how far you are leaning at your contact point...which is not so important, unless you really need to get to another level...higher.

[3fees]

Practice, Practice, Practice

[LeeD]

Do you really think he should keep practicing serves with an upright body at contact and falling to the left?
Do we still need more sideshots to see if he's raising his toss shoulder and lowering his hitting hand?
Doesn't more practice just makes his style more grooved, when he should maybe make some changes to correct the flaws?
I don't know.
I'm an old fart who is not getting any better, so I'll allow my technique to go to pot...... low toss hand, great archer's bow, but straight toss arm at contact.

[Greg G]

Well I am under no illusions that at the end of this I'll be serving bombs. But I do know there's a lot of improvement to be had in this stroke. The improved toss and easier swing (and resultant increased pace) has given me a glimpse of what could be, so I will keep plugging away.

The experience with my retooling the forehand was much the same way. It's a series of small "eureka" moments which add up. Then eventually a big breakthrough occurs, and you're over the hump. Hopefully it'll be the same with the serve. Anyway, as I said in that thread, I rather enjoy the learning process

[Greg G]

Found some improvement in rhythm and consistency this past week. Was tossing a bit more in front, and getting some more pace off it. I actually hit a couple of aces even!

I also worked on keeping the start slow, and also concentrated on unweighting my front foot as I rocked back. Seemed to work wonders with the weight transfer/rhythm.

Real time video:

http://youtu.be/g8DTLOmDW0c

http://youtu.be/62_eav5IC2U

Here are slow motion videos for your comments:

http://youtu.be/JxeL2hCJX2g

http://youtu.be/t76ZNNJwYlo

http://youtu.be/0iUssfG9_cM

Service points:
http://youtu.be/m53LbvnTmBo

[dak95_00]

I didn't read the entire posts but looked at your videos out of curiosity. I took many years off of playing tennis; I'd guess up to 10. Then I started playing infrequently and now more frequently the last few years. I'm amazed at the number of things I've learned in my maturity.

1) I'm better mentally most of the time.
2) I realize that fundamental strokes are much more important than just repetitive strokes.
3) I'm still remembering little things here and there that I'd forgotten.

On #3:
Just the other day I realized I used to be a toe dragger on my serves. I think I must've stopped years ago due to the fact I couldn't afford shoes like I can now. The last two times out, I've begun toe dragging again and I'm amazed at the consistency I'm getting. My serve has been holding me back and has been very frustrating because it used to be the best part of my game 20+ years ago. It wasn't like it was a monster or it kicked up greatly or anything like that. It was placed where I wanted it and I could serve and volley behind it. Now, it's been just YUCK. However, I feel it is getting better and now I just need to continue to practice and work on my volleys (I still haven't figured out what the hack is going on here. I used to be very comfortable at the net!).

Good luck! I understand the fun, excitement, and frustration of starting over and rediscovering.

[watungga]

Just want to provide tip here re:Reviving Serves.

Its winter time here. Stuck in my house with no money to play indoors. I want my serves back. I do a lot of shadowing strokes including serves (we have a high ceiling family room). After 2 months, it gave me muscle memory on how to execute them properly.

How the hell i got muscle memory? Simple. I covered the string bed with cut-out plastic, tape it back to back. It has drag which enabled my arm muscles to exert efforts at the ball impact zone of my strokes.

Its really addictive doing it.

I happened to drag my toe a lot. Now, its automatically jumping, just the way like Federer. I found that my legs' the culprit. The left leg must get all the body weight during the toss action. I'm a righty.

[Greg G]

Like I needed a new (to me) high speed camera to tell me the need to toss further in front, but hey, at least I can see contact clearly...

http://youtu.be/KKyoDKtnEJE

I did notice I have a better contact when warming up. So I 'outjump' my toss...?

[Greg G]

Thought I'd post up today's footage from a doubles match. Serve was working pretty well, with me just concentrating on tossing out in front. Still needs more "out in front", but it's a hell of a lot more consistent now than a few months ago, and not a sitter

http://youtu.be/TIOUU2J953Y

[Greg G]

OK service seems to be getting better, the shoulder is getting much more relaxed. I feel I was unconsciously tensing up after trophy at max external rotation because of an old shoulder injury (pain at max range of motion). Stretching and shoulder exercises have reduced it to almost nil. Plus approaching the service line totally relaxed and not rushing the toss/backswing seems to have helped me explode into the ball better.

Real time:
http://youtu.be/bAsjSGImk5E

Slow motion:
http://youtu.be/2fryB9Bd2ig

The sharp eyed may have noticed the stickers on me...playing with Kinovea software and seeing of the tracking markers on certain body parts will help with the tracking. Success! So fun hehe:
http://youtu.be/UeO1irM0ujw

[Greg G]

Today's (minimal) serve practice. First 4 warmup, feet square to net, no jump. Why do I get more effortless power this way compared to the full motion???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8diPr5F41hg

[TomT]

Originally Posted by Greg G

Today's (minimal) serve practice. First 4 warmup, feet square to net, no jump. Why do I get more effortless power this way compared to the full motion???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8diPr5F41hg

Looks like your serve is improving Greg. That patient persistence is paying off.

I would guess that it seems to us like the power to weight ratio is more when we're warming up because what we're doing in warm up is actually most of the shot. The full motion does increase the power, but in smaller proportion to the effort expended.

[Greg G]

Thanks Tom! I think the take home message is that I should relax more during the motion. Whatever I'm adding to the warmup in the full motion is tensed up somewhere...

[charliefedererer]

Originally Posted by Greg G

Thanks Tom! I think the take home message is that I should relax more during the motion. Whatever I'm adding to the warmup in the full motion is tensed up somewhere...

Great minds think alike - in this case your's and Jim McLennan's:
Rehearsing the Serve http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUeCEfUwyq4

[Greg G]

Served really really well today in a doubles match. Bombs. And the spin was kicking up to the high backhand.

The 3 main points I worked on:
1. Consistent ritual prior to serving. Nothing unusual, just a 4 bounce rhythm.
2. Complete relaxation. The feeling of being super loose while starting the motion.
3. Toss way out in front. If the toss goes back, everything is screwed, and I can't do a relaxed swing.

Of course I had the camera turned off, so it becomes a 'cool story bro' kinda thing. Anyway, I hope I can make service days like this a regular thing. Absolutely no shoulder or arm pain, just amazing. Sorry for the fluffy post, I just got a good glimpse of the future

[Greg G]

Arg. I lost the plot again. The toss is the culprit, based on where my right leg is kicking out.

http://youtu.be/4rX1kYK2inA

http://youtu.be/5ofo3FI48as

[Lukhas]

Tried simple stuff like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YxgjV1Dtls

[Greg G]

Yup. It's more a relaxation issue I think. It tends to be a bit too far left/not in front when I'm tense, or try to rush the initial part of the service motion.

[Greg G]

A few days ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlTeqFbz568

Slow motion comparison to Ryan Harrison. Ugh.
Deuce court:
http://youtu.be/nnu5qe3EukQ

Ad court. Slightly better:
http://youtu.be/29MJpGeUF1Q

[LeeD]

I thought, a few posts above, you said you served pretty well with a consistent ritual.
This vid, you walk up and hit the ball.
Shouldn't you adopt a consistent ritual before each and every serve?
What's the point of rapid fire serving, when the opponent is just standing there watching your serves?
And yes, your serve is very good even at 4.5 for someone your size, if you can keep from falling 5' to your left.
And do you have more than just the same old top/slice serve?